International Challenge Cup in The Hague, Netherlands

Alissa Czisny and Jeremy Abbot both chose to compete here this weekend since they missed 4CC.
A rather non-important event, but still interesting because Alissa and Carolina get to compete against each other one last time before Worlds and I'm eager to see what condition they are in at this point if any videos get posted.
Florent Amodio, Brian Joubert, and a few other notable skaters will be there as well.

https://www.youtube.com/user/challengecup2012?feature=g-u-u the youtube channel

but home video version is more clear https://youtu.be/xjl3BS7P82k uh

http://archief.knsb.nl/upload/kunstrijden/kunstrijden2012/20120308/Seniormen_SP_Scores.pdf

shikure thanks for the links.

Here is ladies sp protocol. I must say, that I don't understand Carolina's score...

http://archief.knsb.nl/upload/kunstrijden/kunstrijden2012/20120308/Seniorladies_SP_Scores.pdf

zarinaballerina wrote:

shikure thanks for the links.

Here is ladies sp protocol. I must say, that I don't understand Carolina's score...

http://archief.knsb.nl/upload/kunstrijden/kunstrijden2012/20120308/Seniorladies_SP_Scores.pdf

super high GOE and such a content, well... it's Europe, but there are no World stars except Carolina, Alissa skated bad so I guess it's quite understandable.

Thanks very much for the links, Shikure
Alissa's scores were decent, but this string of bad performances does not bode well for Worlds. Now we'll just have to see if she can pull off a clean long in a no-pressure competition like this. Carolina should score well regardless of how she skates because she is really the only top skater here.

Oh, and Florent won the short ahead of Jeremy

Yes, it's Europe so this is how Karolina is going to be scored at Worlds. Watch out.
I like her as a person but I never really liked her skating. She doesn't look flexible enough. Does she really skate faster than others ?

ddmm wrote:

Yes, it's Europe so this is how Karolina is going to be scored at Worlds. Watch out.
I like her as a person but I never really liked her skating. She doesn't look flexible enough. Does she really skate faster than others ?

Yes, she's very fast And her edges are superb.

ddmm wrote:

Yes, it's Europe so this is how Karolina is going to be scored at Worlds. Watch out.
I like her as a person but I never really liked her skating. She doesn't look flexible enough. Does she really skate faster than others ?

Yes I agree with you about Carolina. I like her as a person, but never cared much for her skating. Yes, she does skate very fast. Her speed actually used to be a problem for her. She's worked on it a lot over the years, which may be why you may ask if she's really all that faster than other skaters. She may have it under control by now.

I heard about this competition a few days ago. I was a bit surprised to hear how some of the top skaters in the world were going to be at this B level competition - one I'd never even heard of. Hm. Well four continents has kind of served as a practice or preview for worlds, and also somewhere to send skaters who didn't quite make it to worlds. Maybe this competition will become a little more prestigious now? Something maybe somewhere in between four continents and worlds? Seems like once a competition becomes more prestigious, it never goes backwards. I think it might be likely that we will be hearing more about this competition, and seeing at least some top skaters there every season from now on.

polosatik wrote:

zarinaballerina wrote:

shikure thanks for the links.

Here is ladies sp protocol. I must say, that I don't understand Carolina's score...

http://archief.knsb.nl/upload/kunstrijden/kunstrijden2012/20120308/Seniorladies_SP_Scores.pdf

super high GOE and such a content, well... it's Europe, but there are no World stars except Carolina, Alissa skated bad so I guess it's quite understandable.

But 34 on PCS?! That's alot even for her. She got 31 something at euros.

Here is tthe protocol for ladies lp. I don't know what to say about Caro's score. She won with 197.73 total. She got 70 in pcs, in my opinion this is a joke! Judges better give her FAIR score at worlds!

http://archief.knsb.nl/upload/kunstrijden/kunstrijden2012/20120308/Seniorladies_FS_Scores.pdf

Carolina got 132.84 points in the freeskate,(higher than Ashley at 4CC)! Unlike many here, I like Caro's skating, but I really hope that these are not the kind of scores we should expect to see from her at worlds with her watered down jumping content...it just doesn't make sense.

Alissa only scored 92.92 for her lp, so it looks like she won't be making top five at worlds this year. She'll be lucky if she even makes top ten. She lost the silver to Valentina Marchei. That says alot because she should've been able to outscore her pretty easily.

I had the same reaction as you, I can't believe her score, especially PCS, over 70! And those GOE on her jumps .
Though this wasn't an ISU event, still the judges could have been more fair.

Well in any event where Valentina Marchei can get 62 in PCS with a fall, Carolina certainly can earn 70 for a clean skate! I haven't even seen the skates, but I would give her 80 to Valentina's 62... But seriously, I think this was just an overscored event, as is the case of many less popular events. What better way to attract better skaters than to give out personal bests like candy. It makes them (the skaters) look good internationally and it makes them want to come back for more. 4CC does the exact same thing, though (Ashley's score aside) it's been less and less recently. I guess the event is better "established" now.

ETA: And Carolina upgraded her content somewhat... Do I see two 3F with no -GOE here? I hope she keeps adding content. With 2 flips, she's no worse content-wise than 90% of the ladies out there... She has 4 different triples and is just missing the toughest one. Still overscored, obviously, but this seems to have been her best performance so far this season.

As for Worlds, let's wait and see. I doubt the judges are ready to give such mindblowing high PCS yet. They're waiting for Sochi to go completely bonkers.

Wait, do scores attained at B events count a seasons best?

I must admit I just looked at Caro's scores and ignored everyone else. I agree with you, Valentina getting 62 in PCS is even more weird than Carolina's 70. I don't understand what's going on with Alissa. with the way she's skated here, attaining 3 spots for USA is very unlikely.

zarinaballerina wrote:

Wait, do scores attained at B events count a seasons best?

I must admit I just looked at Caro's scores and ignored everyone else. I agree with you, Valentina getting 62 in PCS is even more weird than Carolina's 70. I don't understand what's going on with Alissa. with the way she's skated here, attaining 3 spots for USA is very unlikely.

No, they're not officially counted or anything. But to the skating community, the skater still received them. I see it like national overscoring, but for a different purpose. Federations tend to overscore their skaters at Nationals to give them a reputation boost internationally, while "B" events give out big scores to attract bigger names.

And yes looking at the protocols, that was a particularly awful outing from Alissa. Seems the USFSA was right in keeping her out of 4CC... This hot mess is going to be a lot less publicised. If it had happened in Colorado Springs though... Ouch!

I hope Alissa gets her head back together again. I'm not a huge fan of her pretty princess programs this season, but overall, I still like her a lot and I want her to do good.

ETA: look at all this minus GOE on the jumps... 92 was another gift from those judges! The only jump she landed cleanly was a 2 lutz. Even her two 1As got major -GOE.... She actually went for 4 triples; got UR on 2, DG and fall on one and fell on the other... This is beyond worrying! She was majorly held up by her PCS. A total score of 75 would have been closer to what she actually put on the ice. Thank god she can spin.

Of course 132 is ridiculous and she won't get those PCS at worlds, but aside the 2A her jumps were gorgeous, the speed across the ice was amazing and the steps were to die for! Yes, she isn't so flexible but not all the ladies skaters have to be ballerinas on ice. She added a second 3F, landed the 2A-3T and with her upgraded technical content(she has 6 triples planned, two 3F, two 3S, 3L, 3T and two 2A. The only jump that is missing is the 3Lz), she is the one to beat at worlds. Mao's current jumps are not as good as Carolina's, as much as it pains me to say it. Mao needs to land the 3A to win. Without the 3A, Caro can and probably will beat her in GOE and PCS.(as long as she is clean AND lands all the jumps she plans, which I really doubt because under pressure she tends to do an easier layout).

Lady_in_black wrote:

Of course 132 is ridiculous and she won't get those PCS at worlds, but aside the 2A her jumps were gorgeous, the speed across the ice was amazing and the steps were to die for! Yes, she isn't so flexible but not all the ladies skaters have to be ballerinas on ice. She added a second 3F, landed the 2A-3T and with her upgraded technical content(she has 6 triples planned, two 3F, two 3S, 3L, 3T and two 2A. The only jump that is missing is the 3Lz), she is the one to beat at worlds. Mao's current jumps are not as good as Carolina's, as much as it pains me to say it. Mao needs to land the 3A to win. Without the 3A, Caro can and probably will beat her in GOE and PCS.(as long as she is clean AND lands all the jumps she plans, which I really doubt because under pressure she tends to do an easier layout).

I'm really glad she nailed the 2A-3T... I think it's the first time this season. The 2A is far from her best jump; she tends to stumble on it a lot so that's really good. Though, like you say, I wouldn't be surprised if she falters a little bit more at Worlds, maybe on one of those two 3F and can only add a 2T after her 2A. It happened all season long.

I'm also thinking Caro is the one to beat at Worlds, but I don't necessarily think Mao is going to need a perfect 3A in the FS to do it. She needs one in the SP, though, for sure. Caro has a 3-3, and although she missed it here, she nailed it all season. It's only a 3T-3T, so she's not gonna get 70 points or anything, but I wouldn't be surprised at 66 or 67. If Mao can do a "somewhat" clean 3A, she should be a little ahead overall. And in the FS, I think Carolina's program is better, but for me, Mao has the edge. However, she hasn't really gone clean all season, even without a 3A. Let's just wait and see, but I believe Mao can pull it off, even if Caro doesn't falter. I think she's the only one who can do it, provided she shows up in great form and does not leave points on the table at the end of her FS. She's also a much better spinner, something that the judges (finally) recognise.

I agree, Mao can do it and she is pretty much the only skater who can beat a clean Carolina at this point. I just hope for a fair judging because as a Carolina fan(but a bigger Mao fan!) I would really hate to see her winning with a performance like she had, lets say, at Europeans.(which wasn't a bad one by any means, but it wasn't spectacular either. It was an OK performance). I don't want to see a 2008 Worlds silver medal dispute again. My biggest wish of course is to see Mao in the middle of the podium, beaming, with a gold medal around her neck!

Lady_in_black wrote:

I agree, Mao can do it and she is pretty much the only skater who can beat a clean Carolina at this point. I just hope for a fair judging because as a Carolina fan(but a bigger Mao fan!) I would really hate to see her winning with a performance like she had, lets say, at Europeans.(which wasn't a bad one by any means, but it wasn't spectacular either. It was an OK performance). I don't want to see a 2008 Worlds silver medal dispute again. My biggest wish of course is to see Mao in the middle of the podium, beaming, with a gold medal around her neck!

Ok I think this is a bit sad. Before Carolina had her long slump, it seemed like the ISU favored her. Now that she's doing better again, it's happening again. On their best days, Carolina is not even comparable to Mao, or some other skaters IMO. So what I think is sad about this is that Carolina should not be the one to watch out for at worlds, but she is, cause the judges like her, and not many other skaters are really up to the challenge at this time. Ladies figure skating is kind of going through a transitional period. Skaters like Yuna, Miki, and Joannie are gone; Mao is still reworking her skating, and going through a lot in her personal life; skaters like Mirai, Alissa, and Kanako are having problems; there's a lot of talented Jr skaters just coming onto the scene, but they haven't reached their full potential (or age limit) yet; Etc. Even though Mao is going through a transition period, I still think she will medal, and has a good chance to win worlds this year. I really think the safest bet at this point for podium predictions will be Mao, Ashley, and Carolina. In what order I'm really not sure.

Lady_in_black wrote:

I agree, Mao can do it and she is pretty much the only skater who can beat a clean Carolina at this point. I just hope for a fair judging because as a Carolina fan(but a bigger Mao fan!) I would really hate to see her winning with a performance like she had, lets say, at Europeans.(which wasn't a bad one by any means, but it wasn't spectacular either. It was an OK performance). I don't want to see a 2008 Worlds silver medal dispute again. My biggest wish of course is to see Mao in the middle of the podium, beaming, with a gold medal around her neck!

This would (will) be amazing. Go MAO!