Japan Open 2010

Thanks for the update Pochinko. The reporter didn't really say anything new. I thought he or she would have gotten some new information if they tried to get info directly. I am still hoping Nakagubo would decide against that difficult layout for this season if it is as the reports claimed. Since Lori is choreographing the LP, I am also wondering if she would have input into the layout of the program because choreographers would take part in all aspects of the program. Perhaps the contents can also change if Mao gets a main coach between now and GP because that person would play a bigger role in making major decisions such as program content.

Oh my... two 3-3s is ok, but two 3As again? She doesn't need it to win.

Inskate, I wonder the same thing. If her lutz is not consistent yet, what will be the 3-3s like?

I don't recall Mao ever attempting a 3L-3L before. Actually, I don't think any ladies skater has tried that combo since Tara. (maybe due to fear of hip injury). I think it's more likely that she will stick to the combos she has done in the past. For the SP, she can try 3A, 3F-3T, 3L. I hope this "highly difficult LP" stays on the Nakagubo's wishlist for future programs or else I'll really question his strategy for this season I feel it's important for Mao to maintain a level of consistency because it leaves a good impression on judges througout the season leading up to Worlds, which will help her scores. I don't think anything is worth risking the consistency of a skater's performance level.

Mao's mystery 3-3 is going to be fun to discuss, that's for sure.
With the altered UR rules I'm still inclined to think she'll favor the +3Lo over the +3T at least in the SP since it's the loop combos that comes naturally to her (and Miki too it seems, as she's been talking about putting the 3Lz-3Lo back into her programs).

The FS layout is definitely very...risky, but I can sort of see the importance of trying it anyway every competition - there's been multiple examples over the last couple of seasons where a skater opts for the easier jump layout early on in the season and struggles later on when they finally add, for example, the quad into their repertoire when Nats or Worlds rolls along. Mao doesn't seem to be affected by this too much (she always had at least one or two visually clean free skate performances every season regardless of the planned elements) though, as long as she feels confident and had ample time to train.

It is going to make the upcoming season very bad for the heart, I must say!

Quote :

I don't recall Mao ever attempting a 3L-3L before. Actually, I don't think any ladies skater has tried that combo since Tara.

While there was no point for Mao to attempt this combination before[*], Mao's been doing it in practice since a long time ago.

2006: https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img831/7256/3l3l300.gif
2009: https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img521/3577/3l3l2009.gif
She also did 3L-3L-2L, but I can't find a gif right now.

It was her best 3-3 in the last off-season, IMHO - all the attempts I've seen looked fully rotated, while 3T-3T and 3F-3L looked UR.

[*] - before the 'e' penalty was introduced, it was more efficient for Mao to repeat 3F and 3Lz. Then Mao still attempted 3Lz in the SP, so it made more sense to attempt 3F-3L. Then Mao started attempting 3A as a combo in SP and repeating 3A in LP, so again there was no place for 3L-3L.

It would be a great combo for SP - the least likely to be DG'ed, IMHO (Mao's 3L technique was great from the start, while 3F was changed recently). But if done in the LP it would only make sense if Mao could include 3S or preferably 3Lz as well. If not, the combo is useless...

Tara's hip was damaged mostly because she had weird technique (from learning to jump on rollerblades) and kept doing combo over and over again. Mao's been doing 3L combos and 3As for a long time and she hasn't suffered any big injury... Plus she's been working with Weider on balancing her body strenght more. I don't think it would be dangerous for her, just pretty useless in the LP for now.

I still think the 2 3As and 2 3-3s plan is pretty crazy. I just hope Mao's programs will be more-or-less ready in time for Japan Open and GP series...

clovera wrote:

The FS layout is definitely very...risky, but I can sort of see the importance of trying it anyway every competition - there's been multiple examples over the last couple of seasons where a skater opts for the easier jump layout early on in the season and struggles later on when they finally add, for example, the quad into their repertoire when Nats or Worlds rolls along. Mao doesn't seem to be affected by this too much (she always had at least one or two visually clean free skate performances every season regardless of the planned elements) though, as long as she feels confident and had ample time to train.

ITA...But I also agree with everybody who've said Mao doesn't need such layouts to win. That's the point...I think if Mao and Nagakubo are really going to go with the layouts he's been mentioning, I don't think they're aiming to win that much next season.

Nagakubo's said already that correcting her jumps will take some years, Mao's aware of it too and says she's trying not to feel hasty. They're targetting Sochi, not for the seasons in between.

It says in the article that Mao's still not doing well with her lutz, and there's a quote from Nagakubo about it. He says 'It's only natural that she's not good at it. She hasn't practiced it last season'. From that I imagine he thinks it's important for her to practice all the jumps every season from now on, and try to jump them as much as possible in competitions. I've had an impression that Akiko has a wide variety of jumps in her pros. Of course in cases when she's not in good condition or if maybe the podium or a ticket to a larger competition depends on it, she would perform only the jumps she's stable with, though.

I'm starting to think they really might be going for the layouts, at least during GP series, see how it turns out, and make final decisions for Nats and Worlds, consulting with the new main coach if she has one by then. I don't know if it's the wisest choice, but Nagakubo must have that sort of plan in mind...afterall, he did say he's prepared to be bashed when he took the job.

Btw, I was shocked to learn that Tara practiced her jumps on rollerblades!
I sometimes go rollerblading, but the friction between the ground and wheels are so strong, totally different from skates and ice, I never thought that was even possible...

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

clovera wrote:

The FS layout is definitely very...risky, but I can sort of see the importance of trying it anyway every competition - there's been multiple examples over the last couple of seasons where a skater opts for the easier jump layout early on in the season and struggles later on when they finally add, for example, the quad into their repertoire when Nats or Worlds rolls along. Mao doesn't seem to be affected by this too much (she always had at least one or two visually clean free skate performances every season regardless of the planned elements) though, as long as she feels confident and had ample time to train.

ITA...But I also agree with everybody who've said Mao doesn't need such layouts to win. That's the point...I think if Mao and Nagakubo are really going to go with the layouts he's been mentioning, I don't think they're aiming to win that much next season.

Nagakubo's said already that correcting her jumps will take some years, Mao's aware of it too and says she's trying not to feel hasty. They're targetting Sochi, not for the seasons in between.

It says in the article that Mao's still not doing well with her lutz, and there's a quote from Nagakubo about it. He says 'It's only natural that she's not good at it. She hasn't practiced it last season'. From that I imagine he thinks it's important for her to practice all the jumps every season from now on, and try to jump them as much as possible in competitions. I've had an impression that Akiko has a wide variety of jumps in her pros. Of course in cases when she's not in good condition or if maybe the podium or a ticket to a larger competition depends on it, she would perform only the jumps she's stable with, though.

I'm starting to think they really might be going for the layouts, at least during GP series, see how it turns out, and make final decisions for Nats and Worlds, consulting with the new main coach if she has one by then. I don't know if it's the wisest choice, but Nagakubo must have that sort of plan in mind...afterall, he did say he's prepared to be bashed when he took the job.

Btw, I was shocked to learn that Tara practiced her jumps on rollerblades!
I sometimes go rollerblading, but the friction between the ground and wheels are so strong, totally different from skates and ice, I never thought that was even possible...

thanks for the info, it'snice to know how mao is doing, even through it isn't always good news... i just hope mao somehow makes it if not in the beginning of the program then atleast at worlds...

inskate wrote:

Tara used to be a competetive artistic roller skater They do the same jumps as figure skaters do, just the mechanics of the edge jumps are a bit different.

Here are some clips:
Tanja Romano: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6VmbVjNJq4 (Tanja's costume looks a bit like Mao's Masquerade LP costume at Worlds )
Luca D'Alisera: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip-eCbfpENc[/color]

inskate, thanks for telling me about all this! I saw a lot of videos of artistic roller skating through the links you gave me. Alot slower than FS but the performances were all fun to watch.

I'm a little embarrassed that I didn't know anything about artistic roller skating. I didn't know they had competitions like that and that it's so similar to FS. But it did seem more difficult to do jumps and even spins in roller skates...It's more easy for me to see how it was all possible though, because they were in 4 wheeled skates and not blades. I remember that the wheels for my roller skates which I had when I was a kid were made in plastic. The wheels for the roller blades I have now seem to be made from rubber like material. That's why the frictions feel stronger than both ice skating and roller skating. I wonder what kind of wheels they use for competiton skates like these. But I guess the special rink for the sport helps out in softening the friction. I roller blade on asphalt roads in the park so...you can all guess why I was surprised about Tara at first.

While I understand this logic of maximizing practice opportunities for Sochi, I don't understand why they need to include two 3A's in the LP. If she's doing the 3A in her SP, she's already doing two 3A's in every competition, which I think is enough practice for one jump. I also don't understand why the need to do two 3-3's so early when Mao has been strugging with 3-3 combos for a while. It's much more reasonable to try to first stabilize one 3-3 combo. Perhaps this is Nakagubo's way of allowing Mao to practice all her triples? But this can be done without doubling up on difficult combos and 3As. It would make more sense to stabilize all her triples before attempting more difficult combinations.

aoi88 wrote:

While I understand this logic of maximizing practice opportunities for Sochi, I don't understand why they need to include two 3A's in the LP. If she's doing the 3A in her SP, she's already doing two 3A's in every competition, which I think is enough practice for one jump. I also don't understand why the need to do two 3-3's so early when Mao has been strugging with 3-3 combos for a while. It's much more reasonable to try to first stabilize one 3-3 combo. Perhaps this is Nakagubo's way of allowing Mao to practice all her triples? But this can be done without doubling up on difficult combos and 3As. It would make more sense to stabilize all her triples before attempting more difficult combinations.

I think they feel there's a need to rush things a bit for Mao. Because of her age. Once you hit 20, your physical abilities start going down the hill like crazy. So I'm guessing, they do not want to make her do pros which are easier than last season concerning stamina. Don't know if this is such a good idea, though...the layouts worry me not becasue she'll need to start on everything at once, but because she'll need much more amount of stamina to skate them for sure. I hope she won't get injured or damage her health...if in anycase such tragedies should occur, I may have no choice but to think that all this was a bad idea. I hope that would never happen...

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

aoi88 wrote:

While I understand this logic of maximizing practice opportunities for Sochi, I don't understand why they need to include two 3A's in the LP. If she's doing the 3A in her SP, she's already doing two 3A's in every competition, which I think is enough practice for one jump. I also don't understand why the need to do two 3-3's so early when Mao has been strugging with 3-3 combos for a while. It's much more reasonable to try to first stabilize one 3-3 combo. Perhaps this is Nakagubo's way of allowing Mao to practice all her triples? But this can be done without doubling up on difficult combos and 3As. It would make more sense to stabilize all her triples before attempting more difficult combinations.

I think they feel there's a need to rush things a bit for Mao. Because of her age. Once you hit 20, your physical abilities start going down the hill like crazy. So I'm guessing, they do not want to make her do pros which are easier than last season concerning stamina. Don't know if this is such a good idea, though...the layouts worry me not becasue she'll need to start on everything at once, but because she'll need much more amount of stamina to skate them for sure. I hope she won't get injured or damage her health...if in anycase such tragedies should occur, I may have no choice but to think that all this was a bad idea. I hope that would never happen...

I'm also worried about injury. But injuries aside, I just don't think it's a very smart strategy. If they wanted to have a more balanced and harder layout than last season, why not just go back to her 2007-2008 layout? Why are they experimenting in a season that also coincides with rebuilding? Somehow, all of this just doesn't make sense to me. I know I'm being the mean critic here but I really don't want Mao's new season to mirror her previous one. This season should be a brand new start for her. Now, I am really hoping Lori or the new main coach can hold them back from going for these risks this season.

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

I think they feel there's a need to rush things a bit for Mao. Because of her age. Once you hit 20, your physical abilities start going down the hill like crazy. So I'm guessing, they do not want to make her do pros which are easier than last season concerning stamina. Don't know if this is such a good idea, though...the layouts worry me not becasue she'll need to start on everything at once, but because she'll need much more amount of stamina to skate them for sure. I hope she won't get injured or damage her health...if in anycase such tragedies should occur, I may have no choice but to think that all this was a bad idea. I hope that would never happen...

I agree with you Pochi, but I think one 3A is enough, cause it demands too much from her. It's not a matter of stop doing two 3As now and then getting them back. It's never do this type of layout again, cause she doesn't need it to win. Yuna (sorry, I must bring her) was OC with no 3A and only one 3-3. I don't believe the judging system will change that much from now on. If Mao can bring back the 3-3s, 3Lz and 3S, she just needs a more CoP-based program to get high scores.

If she can have her 2007-2008 LP consistent again, with a 3S instead of the solo 2A, and only one 3A, she'll be almost unbeatable.

alyssa wrote:

If she can have her 2007-2008 LP consistent again, with a 3S instead of the solo 2A, and only one 3A, she'll be almost unbeatable.

I agree. Her layout that season was almost perfect. It's very difficult and balanced in terms of jump content.

Does anyone have a video or a gif of Mao trying 3A-3T? I've heard a lot about it but never saw her doing it.

I would like Mao to continue doing 3 axels in her programs, just because she is a perfect triple axel's jumper. In comparison with the 3-3 combination her 3 axel looks more consistent, powerful and valuable. If Mao includes the 3-3 layout it will take time and physical abilities to stabilize it. I would prefer the strategy of the last year programs and if she included her 3S and 2A-3T it would be perfect.

When is JOP?

alyssa wrote:

When is JOP?

October 2nd.

clovera wrote:

alyssa wrote:

When is JOP?

October 2nd.

Almost a month away...
Can't wait.

Japan Open
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv4EWwQ63SM

kirakira wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66VwCsJXAos

Yey!!!! Can't wait till it starts!

is there also some online live video streaming?! or do I have to wait until someone uploads it on youtube or something?!

I'm so anxious!