Rostelecom Cup 2013

zarinaballerina wrote:

ballerinamao wrote:

I'm soooo looking forward to the GPF, the last two competition just felt really empty without Mao, and eventhrough it's only been two weeks since she skated, it already feels like forever. as for the scores I'm also hoping that she will get even better scores, but no matter what I'm sure Mao will deliver (like she always does) the rest will be up to the judges. I will be counting the days until the GPF will beginns  
can't wait to see the new changes in the free  


and as a side note: i'm soo happy to see Mirai finally medal, and Kanako rocking the freeskate.
Here is a hoping that Mirai will deliver at Nationals and get the third Olympic spot!

I also can't wait to see Mao again but I must admit, that I'm also scared about the changes of her LP, especially if the changes involve a certain jump.  

I'm so happy for Mirai, but I'm worried that the judges will lowballed her at Nats again.  

I didn't watch the men and Ice dance, I  gave up on my feed, but I see that both Kovtun and Javi kind of bombed.   What the heck is going on with Javi?

And holy cow, W/P have beaten B/S in the free dance, and that on the Russian soil.    B/S better figure out what's wrong ASAP, because I/K just scored over 100 points in the free at TEB. If B/S want to keep their position as Russian #1, they need to get their act together.

The live feed was horrible the damn commercials kept coming up every few minutes, and the screen quality was really bad. I must admit I also only watched the ladies event live, couldn't stand the feed for too long so I decided to wait for the videos to be loaded before watching the rest.

as for Mao's layout, well if she is going to change anything it's better to do it early and get used to the changes, and I also don't think they would make any changes if she and the Sato's weren't confident about it, and in the end, if she after the GPF prefers the current layout, she will surely keep it (that's assuming there will be changes).

US nationals will be heartbreaking to watch because the two american skaters (Mirai and Gao) I keep cheering for are not really that well liked by the USSF, but if they care about the overall results, then they better carefully think about the recent GP events and how agnes has been performing in competition before deciding to lowbell Mirai or Gao. I would be so happy if either of them get the third spot.

Iceriver wrote:

zarinaballerina wrote:

And holy cow, W/P have beaten B/S in the free dance, and that on the Russian soil.    B/S better figure out what's wrong ASAP, because I/K just scored over 100 points in the free at TEB. If B/S want to keep their position as Russian #1, they need to get their act together.

And B/S were "lucky" to have  a 7 point lead after the SD IMO. I expected W/P to be above them in the FD and wasn't expecting the Canadians to score just 61 yesterday. The 70 points from Skate Canada were certainly too much, but scores this time were not fair IMO.

As for Mao...is she really going for 2 triples axels in the FS? I love her but, seriously, she should try to be objective and make up her mind. No triple-triple in the long then? It might be downgraded, but it's still worth 9 points more or less...more than an UR o slightly two-footed triple axel. I'm not saying she's not capable of doing so, but I think that going for the same strategy as Vancouver is not wise...it didn't prove to be a good decision back then.

She hasn't made a final decision, and considering her options, an even trying new strategies in competition may help her clarify what path she should take.
afterall she did the same last year when she started with the 3lo and then did the 3A at 4CC, and afterwards put the 3A back in the beginning.

Yes I think that trying it and see the results is not bad...however, I'm worried in case she has decided to change her choreography to add one more triple axel since it requires more preparation than other jumps.

Iceriver wrote:

Yes I think that trying it and see the results is not bad...however, I'm worried in case she has decided to change her choreography to add one more triple axel since it requires more preparation than other jumps.

Well let's first see IF she is going to add another 3A in the GPF, and then see how it t will go. no matter what I doubt that Sato would allow Mao add another 3A if he isn't confident about her landing both 3A.
In the interview Mao sounded like she wanted to try it at either the GPF or Nationals, but it didn't sound like she herself was expecting the change to necessary be permanent for the rest of the season. Afterall who better then Mao herself knows how much additional pressure adding another 3A gives.

ballerinamao wrote:

Well let's first see IF she is going to add another 3A in the GPF, and then see how it t will go. no matter what I doubt that Sato would allow Mao add another 3A if he isn't confident about her landing both 3A.
In the interview Mao sounded like she wanted to try it at either the GPF or Nationals, but it didn't sound like she herself was expecting the change to necessary be permanent for the rest of the season. Afterall who better then Mao herself knows how much additional pressure adding another 3A gives.

Yes of course, it's just that I'm worried every time I hear " two triple axels in the FS" as it reminds me of Vancouver and how her technical scores were not as high as expected despite trying such a difficult element twice. You're right that I should have more faith in Sato an Mao

Iceriver wrote:

ballerinamao wrote:

Well let's first see IF she is going to add another 3A in the GPF, and then see how it t will go. no matter what I doubt that Sato would allow Mao add another 3A if he isn't confident about her landing both 3A.
In the interview Mao sounded like she wanted to try it at either the GPF or Nationals, but it didn't sound like she herself was expecting the change to necessary be permanent for the rest of the season. Afterall who better then Mao herself knows how much additional pressure adding another 3A gives.

Yes of course, it's just that I'm worried every time I hear " two triple axels in the FS" as it reminds me of Vancouver and how her technical scores were not as high as expected despite trying such a difficult element twice. You're right that I should have more faith in Sato an Mao

You really can't compare the technical scores from Vancouver, because 1. The judges were not regarding the 3A, etc. with as much importance as they do now. 2. Mao's Vancouver's program was no where near at the same level as her Sochi's program, in terms of
Skating Skills
Transitions/Linking Footwork/Movement
Performance/Execution
Choreography/Composition
Interpretation.

Look at how high she's scoring now even with mistakes and  4-5 triples. I think if Mao was to execute 2 clean 3A's even with other mistakes, her technical score will be much higher than it was in vancouver. Because Mao upped her game in every other category.

Iceriver wrote:

As for Mao...is she really going for 2 triples axels in the FS? I love her but, seriously, she should try to be objective and make up her mind. No triple-triple in the long then? It might be downgraded, but it's still worth 9 points more or less...more than an UR o slightly two-footed triple axel. I'm not saying she's not capable of doing so, but I think that going for the same strategy as Vancouver is not wise...it didn't prove to be a good decision back then.

Actually, Mao needed those 2 triple axels to win her Olympic medal. She had a judges scoring pet to battle as well as the threat from Joannie who had a home-advantage and an emotional experience.
Her other jumps were already unstable then- she even had no choice but to make a 3T a single jump. Even her 3A's were difficult for her...especially if you look at the beginning of the season. People were already talking about her off the podium, but she managed to train her 3A's to a 100% success rate in practice (I still don't know how she did it).

Back to Rostelecom, wow...what a strange competition! On one hand, I don't think Julia deserved 118 for her 3 triples, and to win the whole competition with that is not a good way to do it. On the other hand, I don't know if Carolina deserves to go to the GPF with her performances either. It was just a lose-lose situation. It seems like the judges were determined to send Julia though. If she wasn't so over-scored in the SP, Carolina would be going...
Other skaters were underscored. Julia should not almost a 10pt lead in PCS over the other skaters...

Iceriver wrote:

The 70 points from Skate Canada were certainly too much, but scores this time were not fair IMO.

So where is the golden line goes? 70 is too much and 61 is too small. Not addressing Iceriver particulary but it's hillarious to read all those comments about overscoring at CoR on GoldenSkate. The same people who were leacturing everyone what fools they were who know nothing about CoP when Chanboni&Co won over better-skated skaters, now are screaming theit lings out "not fair!". Which means only one axiom possible- according to them overscoring is reserved for ISU pets only and should never be applied to anyone else. If Russians, who were considerably patient for all this time, finally decided to harnessed their sled, cheers to them. Because after seeing how hard work of skaters and reaction of the audince (booing in Nice) didn't really work, I don't see any other effective method to deal with corruption. Do you?

It must be so frustrating for Kanako to skate like that and watch her score  , I don`t wonder why she wants retire after this season  , she was so beautiful  .

And Julia, good SP but I don`t understand her score for LP  , I mean, she is good but no extraordinary, tiny jumps, travel spins, mediocre step sequence, and what they aim  ?, that she will win in Sochi?, What the ISU is thinking?, another Tara L. ?, who just showed a few months, got the OG and gone home?, is stupid, even Julia skating super good in OG they don`t should give her the gold medal, if she win silver or less she will stay competing at least four years more and she has the potential to be so popular like Mao and Yuna. On the other hand all this hype will pressure her, we all know what happened to Yu-na in GPF in Korea and she was older than Julia and with strong nerves.

Ice dance was a bad joke too  .

I am happy for Elena R. going to GPF and Mirai is skating better.
The GPF will be very exciting and interesting  .

^ Joking is not all things ScamCanadian. And it's not like NHK was always perfect either. Don't see what this CoR fuss is all about.

let`s talk wrote:

So where is the golden line goes? 70 is too much and 61 is too small. Not addressing Iceriver particulary but it's hillarious to read all those comments about overscoring at CoR on GoldenSkate. The same people who were leacturing everyone what fools they were who know nothing about CoP when Chanboni&Co won over better-skated skaters, now are screaming theit lings out "not fair!". Which means only one axiom possible- according to them overscoring is reserved for ISU pets only and should never be applied to anyone else. If Russians, who were considerably patient for all this time, finally decided to harnessed their sled, cheers to them. Because after seeing how hard work of skaters and reaction of the audince (booing in Nice) didn't really work, I don't see any other effective method to deal with corruption. Do you?

  OMG, let's talk! Chanboni, that's priceless.    

I also find it funny, how those who always defend Yuna's and especially Patrick's scores, are screaming bloody murder. While I don't agree with overscoring in general, I do see your point. Why should only a selective few have the advantage of undeserved overscoring, when others can as well. I just wish ISU would get it's act together and make a stop to this nonsence. It's killing this sport.

chapis wrote:

It must be so frustrating for Kanako to skate like that and watch her score   , I don`t wonder why she wants retire after this season  , she was so beautiful   

And Julia, good SP but I don`t understand her score for LP   , I mean, she is good but no extraordinary, tiny jumps, travel spins, mediocre step sequence, and what they aim   ?,

I don't understand what they have against Kanako either. She was really beautiful in the LP. I mean getting even lower PCS than Liza who had two falls, and was very heavy on the ice (I'm not refering to her weight), WTH?!   Honestly, after all the s**t japanese skaters had to put with over the years, I wish JSF would forget about their code of honour (or however you call it in japan), hire a professional interpreter and start "helping" your skaters. I know it's against their mentatlity, and demanding that your skaters earn it the right way is honorable and respectful, but it doesn't do you any good, when everyone else is playing dirty, and as a result, your skaters are left out.  

As for Julia and CoR, I completely agree, she was overscored. However, have you seen Caro's score?! It appears that the judges and I were looking at two completly diferent performances, because in my world, Caro didn't deserve a point over 116.

sapphiresky wrote:

Actually, Mao needed those 2 triple axels to win her Olympic medal. She had a judges scoring pet to battle as well as the threat from Joannie who had a home-advantage and an emotional experience.

Yes, definitely. I only wanted to point out that it proved not to be the best strategy in terms of difficulty vs points obtained. However, as some of you have said, things are quite different now. I'd better shut up until I see the results  

let`s talk wrote:

So where is the golden line goes? 70 is too much and 61 is too small. Not addressing Iceriver particulary but it's hillarious to read all those comments about overscoring at CoR on GoldenSkate.

I've read most of the comments on GoldenSkate and it's obvious that some people there are  Canada and USA defenders and like to hate on Russia. I'm from Spain so I'm not biased toward or against any of them. I still can't agree with some scores from this competition (Julia's SP, W/P SD and specially Kanako's PCS in the FS). I'm not implying that this is the only competition with bad judging, obviously not.

shar wrote:

Iceriver wrote:

ballerinamao wrote:

Well let's first see IF she is going to add another 3A in the GPF, and then see how it t will go. no matter what I doubt that Sato would allow Mao add another 3A if he isn't confident about her landing both 3A.
In the interview Mao sounded like she wanted to try it at either the GPF or Nationals, but it didn't sound like she herself was expecting the change to necessary be permanent for the rest of the season. Afterall who better then Mao herself knows how much additional pressure adding another 3A gives.

Yes of course, it's just that I'm worried every time I hear " two triple axels in the FS" as it reminds me of Vancouver and how her technical scores were not as high as expected despite trying such a difficult element twice. You're right that I should have more faith in Sato an Mao

You really can't compare the technical scores from Vancouver, because 1. The judges were not regarding the 3A, etc. with as much importance as they do now. 2. Mao's Vancouver's program was no where near at the same level as her Sochi's program, in terms of
Skating Skills
Transitions/Linking Footwork/Movement
Performance/Execution
Choreography/Composition
Interpretation.

Look at how high she's scoring now even with mistakes and  4-5 triples. I think if Mao was to execute 2 clean 3A's even with other mistakes, her technical score will be much higher than it was in vancouver. Because Mao upped her game in every other category.

Well actually she has been consistently landing a total of 6-7 triples in competition, with 1 or 2 not being totally clean. But I get your point her current layout in general has a much higher scoring potential then the one from Vancouver.

for ladies and men (except Machida), it was a tough competition. The errors appeared more that most skater. But Julia have time for correct her errors (to GPF) and Carolina (to Olympics). I am happy for Mirai and your 3th.

I never supported Mao's 2 3A strategy pre-Vancouver. The risks far outweighed the rewards. But actually I do agree she probably needed it to get an advantage over Rochette for the silver, because Yuna was most definitely going to get the gold if she skated well. However, the situation is somewhat different for Sochi. Because this time, Mao actually has a chance for the gold if she performs perfectly or near perfect. Yuna has less room for errors. However, Mao needs to help her case by maintaing her momentum until Sochi. In other words, she can't afford to give subpar performances, and adding in another 3A creates risks that she doesn't need now. She needs to come close to perfecting her current layout as much as possible. Once she loses that momentum with the judges, Kim's advantage will increase again. In addition, she may present opportunities for skaters like Julia who has shown to give almost perfect performances.

aoi88 wrote:

I never supported Mao's 2 3A strategy pre-Vancouver. The risks far outweighed the rewards. But actually I do agree she probably needed it to get an advantage over Rochette for the silver, because Yuna was most definitely going to get the gold if she skated well. However, the situation is somewhat different for Sochi. Because this time, Mao actually has a chance for the gold if she performs perfectly or near perfect. Yuna has less room for errors. However, Mao needs to help her case by maintaing her momentum until Sochi. In other words, she can't afford to give subpar performances, and adding in another 3A creates risks that she doesn't need now. She needs to come close to perfecting her current layout as much as possible. Once she loses that momentum with the judges, Kim's advantage will increase again. In addition, she may present opportunities for skaters like Julia who has shown to give almost perfect performances.

Julia had a really medicure performance here, and even when she lands everything, she has plenty of weaknesses and areas she needs to work on, and these areas are not really something that can be fixed from on day to another.
The only one that I consider a serious thread is kim, knowing how the judges just love her and have been scoring her the last couple of years.

Oh my goodness. I don't want history to repeat.

Mao_Asada_sunrise wrote:

Oh my goodness. I don't want history to repeat.

You and me both, but it's up to Mao to make sure that doesn't happen. She has the arsenal this time around, all she has to do is execute it 95-100%.

shar wrote:

Mao_Asada_sunrise wrote:

Oh my goodness. I don't want history to repeat.

You and me both, but it's up to Mao to make sure that doesn't happen. She has the arsenal this time around, all she has to do is execute it 95-100%.

I bet she will go for 2 3A... Sources said she was visiting TAT in Paris last week to rework the program.

She definitely is a gutsy woman, or should I say bold?   Anyway, we will know in 10 days.

Rankings
World Skater Rankings: Nov. 18, 2013

Ladies
Rank Name Country Points
1 Mao Asada Japan 4752.70
2 Ashley Wagner USA 3187.50
3 Carolina Kostner Italy 2712.00
4 Akiko Suzuki Japan 2340.20
5 Julia Lipnitskaia Russia 1904.40
6 Adelina Sotnikova Russia 1815.64
7 Elena Radionova Russia 1750.10
8 Gracie Gold USA 1524.90
9 Elizaveta Tuktamisheva Russia 1450.20
10 Kiira Korpi Finland 1305.80


Next five: Yu-Na Kim (Korea), Kanako Murakami (Japan), Anna Pogorilaya (Russia), Christina Gao (USA), Valentina Marchei (Italy)

AmazingGraceMao wrote:

shar wrote:

Mao_Asada_sunrise wrote:

Oh my goodness. I don't want history to repeat.

You and me both, but it's up to Mao to make sure that doesn't happen. She has the arsenal this time around, all she has to do is execute it 95-100%.

I bet she will go for 2 3A... Sources said she was visiting TAT in Paris last week to rework the program.

She definitely is a gutsy woman, or should I say bold?   Anyway, we will know in 10 days.

And when she's gone(retired), how boring would ladies FS be?

Men
Rank Name Country Points
1 Patrick Chan Canada 4569.90
2 Yuzuru Hanyu Japan 2945.20
3 Daisuke Takahashi Japan 2717.04
4 Javier Fernandez Spain 2420.10
5 Tatsuki Machida Japan 1609.10
6 Denis Ten Kazakhstan 1490.42
7 Takahiko Kozuka Japan 1459.50
8 Michal Brezina Czech Republic 1375.74
9 Han Yan China 1367.60
10 Florent Amodio France 1340.52


Next five: Kevin Reynolds (Canada), Takahito Mura (Japan), Nobunari Oda (Japan), Jeremy Abbott (USA), Maxim Kovtun (Russia)

Dance
Rank Name Country Points
1 Meryl Davis/Charlie White USA 5839.00
2 Tessa Virtue/Scott Moir Canada 4711.80
3 Nathalie Pechalat/Fabian Bourzat France 2867.50
4 Ekaterina Bobrova/Dmitri Soloviev Russia 2693.20
5 Anna Cappellini/Luca Lanotte Italy 2295.44
6 Elena Ilinykh/Nikita Katsalapov Russia 2186.20
7 Kaitlyn Weaver/Andrew Poje Canada 1566.10
8 Maia Shibutani/Alex Shibutani USA 1393.76
9 Ekaterina Riazanova/Ilia Tkachenko Russia 1282.12
10 Nelli Zhiganshina/Alexander Gazsi Germany 1137.42


Next five: Alexandra Stepanova/Ivan Bukin (Russia), Madison Hubbell/Zach Donohue (USA), Madison Chock/Evan Bates (USA), Victoria Sinitsina/Ruslan Zhiganshin (Russia), Gabriella Papadakis/Guillaume Cizeron (France)

Pairs
Rank Name Country Points
1 Tatiana Volosozhar/Maxim Trankov Russia 5557.00
2 Aliona Savchenko/Robin Szolkowy Germany 3115.70
3 Meagan Duhamel/Eric Radford Canada 2527.50
4 Qing Pang/Jian Tong China 2377.50
5 Stefania Berton/Ondrej Hotarek Italy 2089.20
6 Kirsten Moore-Towers/Dylan Moscovitch Canada 2044.00
7 Vera Bazarova/Yuri Larionov Russia 1825.00
8 Yuko Kavaguti/Alexander Smirnov Russia 1535.72
9 Ksenia Stolbova/Fedor Klimov Russia 1432.38
10 Caydee Denney/John Coughlin USA 1200.60


Next five: Vanessa James/Morgan Cipres (France), Wenjing Sui/Cong Han (China), Marissa Castelli/Simon Shnapir (USA), Lina Fedorova/Maxim Miroshkin (Russia), Cheng Peng/Hao Zhang (China)

I think Julia is more likely to be set up for a bronze if she skates clean and Carol, Adelina, Ashley and Gracie fail to outdo her. She'll have home advantage, but it can't be so ridiculous as to give her silver or gold.