Other Nationals

shar wrote:

Please translate COHK.

I can't believe they're not sending Mirai to worlds. I'm sorry, I can no longer support the top three American ladies with USSF treating one of their own like that. I hope the other girls do well, but that's as far as any support I will give them.

And if Mirai wants to compete for Japan, they better let her, since they obviously don't want her to support USA.

This shows that you can never count on a federation. Today they hail you as being the next best thing, the other day you kick you out like you're thin air   . 5 years ago, they promoted Mirai and Caroline as the savior of American FS. USSF hates her, but they probably won't be generous to make it easy for her to skate for another country.  

COHK wrote:

Translation:
Mirai's comment: (on the decision from USFS) She feels sorry about that. She does not necessarily agree with the decision, but she will respect the decision of USFS. She's grateful to everyone who has supported her. And she is looking forward to what's coming next in her skating life.

Thank you COHK. I hope she retires and do shows in Asia, where her talents are still appreciated. I can't bare seeing another season of USSF disrespecting Mirai's hard work and accomplishments for the sake of hyping their new it girls.

Heartfelt performance. I need some tissue.

pearlyriver wrote:

Heartfelt performance. I need some tissue.

And I can't stop crying. The Olympics, I might forgive. But no worlds either,      

Someone mentioned Edmond is one of Frank Carroll's (the Bela Karoli of FS) pupil, and since he and Mirai didn't have good relationship/teamwork, this might be his way at getting back to her. And if it is true, Karma will bite him on the ass by having both Gold and Edmond crumble at the olympics and worlds.

shar wrote:

And I can't stop crying. The Olympics, I might forgive. But no worlds either,       

Someone mentioned Edmond is one of Frank Carroll's (the Bela Karoli of FS) pupil, and since he and Mirai didn't have good relationship/teamwork, this might be his way at getting back to her. And if it is true, Karma will bite him on the ass by having both Gold and Edmond crumble at the olympics and worlds.

Polina is Frank's pupil? Currently or previously? Is Frank that powerful?   

I'm going to kind of speak in defense of the USFSA an Polina.  First of all Polina won two JGPF golds, she placed fourth at the JGPF final, mainly because she had a messed up short, but she was second in the free skate with the highest TES of the night.  And frankly in that field, being fourth was no insult at all.  Did you see those girls and their elements!  Polina at  the JGPF earned a TES score in the free which is currently the highest of all the US ladies internationally this year and that's with less elements..  So yes, maybe it wasn't a medal, but still extremely promising sign, for her future.

(Tara Lipinski never medaled at Junior Worlds)

At this point the USFSA sees all these young Russians coming up with these 3/3s.  And they know they are going to need to promote girls who can match them.  Polina beating them on TES is a very good sign for them.  They feel she's competitive with them, and understandably so.

In general, its really not this girl's fault, that she has so little international experience-its all USFSA's fault.  The USFSA has done a terrible job of picking JPG spots.  DO you know how many our last Junior National champs weren't on the JGP the year they won. (Nagasu, Agnes, Hicks (I believe) Edmunds. Gracie only had one!) In the case of a lot of these girls, they were all doing really well in Summer Competitions.  But because of Junior Nationals a year ago, they weren't selected.  May I mention that our selection process for Junior Nationals is uneven.  The Russians are much smarter at this they realize 12/13 year olds have body changes and so take into account recent competitions.

Polina, was skating really well the last two years, and consistently with 3/3s and everything but the USFSA choose to introduce her for someone reason to international competition this year.  So to then punish Polina for their very arbitrary decisions is unfair.

Look, Mirai is very talented, but the thing of the matter is she has not produced results consistent with her talent.  And at the end of the day, is it ridiculous to expect results after six years of Senior international competition?  They aren't looking for someone who can get a bronze medal at GP event once in awhile.  They want someone who wins international competitions.   They want someone who improves.

Look we can get into the reasons why Mirai isn't winning big time but the fact of the matter is-she's not winning.  And can anyone really say that Mirai has improved in the last few years?  Yes, there's injuries and puberty, but all of these girls have injury and puberty.

I can point out that Ashley started out in Juniors around the same time as Mirai, and Ashley who  I don't think is nearly as talented has clearly worked her very hard and improved.  Look at Gracie, who I think is clearly improving tremendously.  Yes Mirai is skating better now than she was a few months ago, but she's not a better skater than she was four years ago.

At the end of the day, I don't think one GP medal, can be regarded as really all that impressive, or what the USFSA expects. (Cesario actually finished up higher on the GP series).  As far as they are concerned its not Polina's fault that she doesn't have a senior gp medal, she never got to compete.  But considering in Juniors she was out there consistently landing 3/3s, well its arguable that Mirai is somehow that much better.  Polina provided this was no fluke at Senior Nationals this year.

They likely feel that they've given Mirai opportunities, and she's not lived up to them.  Polina has impressive technical content, and better technical content than Mirai ever had.

In general, I think its very realistic for them wonder if Mirai has yet to develop a consistent 3/3 now, if its really likely she ever will.


Lots of federations decide to promote youth, if they feel their Senior talent hasn't performed to expectations.  Look at the Russians allowing a young Junior dance team to finish ahead of their third ranked team at Nationals.

At this point, since the USFSA probably feels neither Polina or Mirai will medal, why not give Polina experience and see how she handles it.  Since Polina has the greater technical content.  I think their position's understandable, and I think other federations would probably do the same thing.

At the end of the day, if Mirai started producing consistent international results, and ones worthy of her talent, I'm sure they'd be thrilled and revisit her.  But I don't blame them at all for having so little confidence in Mirai. She's earned that.

(Look at the pattern here.  Nagasu wins Senior Nationals, the next year she's all over the place, She then improves goes to the Olympics, the next year all over the place.  And people are wondering why her federation isn't thrilled with her?  And its not even just oh trouble with nerves. Its the skating clearly doesn't look as good as it could be.)

Beautiful skater and it would be wonderful if she got her act together.

pearlyriver wrote:

shar wrote:

And I can't stop crying. The Olympics, I might forgive. But no worlds either,       

Someone mentioned Edmond is one of Frank Carroll's (the Bela Karoli of FS) pupil, and since he and Mirai didn't have good relationship/teamwork, this might be his way at getting back to her. And if it is true, Karma will bite him on the ass by having both Gold and Edmond crumble at the olympics and worlds.

Polina is Frank's pupil? Currently or previously? Is Frank that powerful?   

I read it from someone on GS. Don't know how true that news is, that she's not his student directly, but there's a connection between the two.

bekalc wrote:

I'm going to kind of speak in defense of the USFSA an Polina.  First of all Polina won two JGPF golds, she placed fourth at the JGPF final, mainly because she had a messed up short, but she was second in the free skate with the highest TES of the night.  And frankly in that field, being fourth was no insult at all.  Did you see those girls and their elements!  Polina at  the JGPF earned a TES score in the free which is currently the highest of all the US ladies internationally this year and that's with less elements..  So yes, maybe it wasn't a medal, but still extremely promising sign, for her future.

(Tara Lipinski never medaled at Junior Worlds)

You left some important info out:
Tara was already US champ, GPF champ, and World champ before she headed on to Olys and won OGM. Not to mention, she won senior level GPF and Worlds.  

I do think Polina had her moments here and there, along with the 3lz-3t and all. But she's still totally juniorish in my eyes. She looked like her hands were too full just doing the elements; no room for expression nor emotion. If she skated lights out just like Jason did, I would have no complaints. But she didn't. Mirai didn't either, but Polina only made silver with a 3 point lead. I do not think 3 points and a high TES in a Jr GPF (even if it's the highest in US ladies) is worth more than Mirai's years of experience and the effort she's been making to get herself back in top league. Plus, I think Polina's FS scores were a bit inflated. Whatever she did, she looked pretty slow to me and I think she couldn't afford to skate fast because she was afraid she'd run out of stamina just like most skaters in their senior debut.   

shar wrote:

pearlyriver wrote:

Heartfelt performance. I need some tissue.

And I can't stop crying. The Olympics, I might forgive. But no worlds either,       

Someone mentioned Edmond is one of Frank Carroll's (the Bela Karoli of FS) pupil, and since he and Mirai didn't have good relationship/teamwork, this might be his way at getting back to her. And if it is true, Karma will bite him on the ass by having both Gold and Edmond crumble at the olympics and worlds.

I don't think I can look at it that way. Mr. Carroll is part of Ms. Edmunds' coaching team along with David Glynn, Nina Edmunds. Mr. Carroll has got to do what he's got to do as her coach, regardless of how he feels and thinks towards Mirai as his former student.

.

Other than that, count me in the list of crying fans.  I hope she gets over this major heart break and does her best at 4CC. And more importantly, I hope she doesn't let skating politics mar her love for skating.

ballerinamao wrote:

OMG I can't believe that USSF didn't even give Mirai a spot for Worlds, and instead gave it to polina too?? unbelievable I'm just speechless!

WTF?!        

It's not that they gave Polina the worlds spot I'm pissed at, lets face it, the girl has earned it, she is a silver medallist. How the hell did Ashley got on the worlds team as well?!            Now this is really outrageous. Mirai is the bronze medal winner, she should go to Worlds. I don't care what kind of sponsors Ashley has behind her, she failed at Nats it's that simple.
Seriously, why even hold national championship, if the Fed will do as they please. 

I like Alexa Scimeca's tweet: Love that social media exists but we are cautioned not to write how we are truly feeling. Where is the honesty?

"Tara was already US champ, GPF champ, and World champ before she headed on to Olys and won OGM. Not to mention, she won senior level GPF and Worlds. Wink "


Before Tara won these events, they were already promoting Tara over some of their other youngsters, including a youngster who won a Junior World Title. Because they felt that Tara had more long term potential.  Tara didn't exactly do swimmingly at her first Senior Worlds but she won a year later.

They aren't thinking that either Polina or Mirai's going to win an Olympic medal, but I do think they are not necessarily fully convinced that Mirai would do better than Polina anyways.  With Mirai's underrotation issues, and Mirai hardly gets high PCS either by the international judges.

Polina has some really high tech content and the international judges have shown that they will reward young talented jumpers. (Look at Anna)  Yes  Polina didn't medal at the JGPF.  But the level at that JGPF It was probably the highest quality level in years.  The USFSA federation is seeing that the Russians have that many girls who can jump like that and so they are looking for an girl who can match that.  And Polina won TES at the JGPF in the free. So for them its a positive sign and development.

Tara didn't win or place all that well at her first Senior worlds, nor did Michelle.  Its invaluable experience, I'm sure they'd have love to have given Kwan that experience in 94. But the experience, opportunity and exposure is huge.  And the USFSA wants to give Polina that opportunity. They don't want to give the opportunity to someone who is going to be easily passed by the Russian Juniors.

They need girls who are going to be competitive in the field.  Mirai hasn't demonstrated the technical content to do so, they are moving  on..

zarinaballerina wrote:

ballerinamao wrote:

OMG I can't believe that USSF didn't even give Mirai a spot for Worlds, and instead gave it to polina too?? unbelievable I'm just speechless!

WTF?!        

It's not that they gave Polina the worlds spot I'm pissed at, lets face it, the girl has earned it, she is a silver medallist. How the hell did Ashley got on the worlds team as well?!            Now this is really outrageous. Mirai is the bronze medal winner, she should go to Worlds. I don't care what kind of sponsors Ashley has behind her, she failed at Nats it's that simple.
Seriously, why even hold national championship, if the Fed will do as they please. 

But to be honest, Polina was held up very highly on PCS, and I feel that had a huge part to push her higher above Mirai. I mean there was a point where her PCS was higher than Ashley! I mean don't get me mad, Ashley really bombed technically, but PCS is something on reputation, grace, artistry and Polina was very juniorish, and she has neither the reputation from being out in senior competitions and international competitions to show her stuff. And comparing to wunderkinds her age getting big scores, at least they had the senior competitions to prove their worth. Inflations were given but not arbitrary.

So I feel, she may be propped up for it, she did the good programmes but the judges also wanted to place her above Mirai. Which is kind of sad I guess, seeing how Mirai has progressed. And not even a worlds placing for Mirai and everyone else (Max, D/C got one) is insane, and even unfair.

And it's more like Polina is very young, and inexperienced. True, she may be fantastic, she may not be as good in the future. (look at Elizaveta ): now that's one sad story. And she had a stronger breakout year than Polina GPF GP gold YOG champ and all.

To base everything on Nationals, and extrapolate it to the future is highly ridiculous. Even Elena Radionova's coach, when asked on Elena's future (and champion worthy-ness) commented that Elena is young, and who knows what the future is. That to me is highly realistic. One should not try to prop any skater that much, because they are still young and needs to be matured. Superstars are born by long and hard work and not purely by just one competition. Mao and Yuna had their fare share of work in the junior levels, and even in seniors, they medaled but never won Gold so quickly. And it was consistent international success. Even for Michelle Kwan, she did good internationally and so did Tara (the REIGNING world champ going into 98 olympics.) So I don't know. Superskaters and Ice queens are born by their successes, not just at nationals...

But I feel totally dismissing Mirai is bad. She missed so many boats before due to nationals (2011 was not that bad, she just placed 3rd ntl and Flatt was actually injured going into worlds) And with your own country pushing you down, how can you expect international judges to view you so positively? There is always benefit being viewed top skaters of your own country.

But what can I say, I am just as sad as ever, together with all the crying fans out there. I'm slowly thinking that this comp is a little less transparent as I thought it was. And people dinging Russia at least they let the Men thrash it out at Euros (or wanted them to). And that is one young accomplished GPF finalist vs Multi-worldchamp/olympic medalist veteran. At least that is more thought out. The thought of having a senior DEBUT at olympics is sensational, but just..... I dont know what to say anymore. I dont hate Polina, but it's really hard for me to get behind this skating decision.... and Polina's placement and all. (Ashley I can understand, strategically she is the best bet, and it is probably more impt to maintain 3 spots again) It's just this whole judging... I dont get it anymore.

And I thought I just had to worry about Mao and Yuna and everyone else looking for the OGM. US nationals is going to drive me nuts.

bekalc wrote:

Polina has some really high tech content and the international judges have shown that they will reward young talented jumpers. (Look at Anna)  Yes  Polina didn't medal at the JGPF.  But the level at that JGPF It was probably the highest quality level in years.  The USFSA federation is seeing that the Russians have that many girls who can jump like that and so they are looking for an girl who can match that.  And Polina won TES at the JGPF in the free.  So for them its a positive sign and development.

Tara didn't win or place all that well at her first Senior worlds, nor did Michelle.  Its invaluable experience, I'm sure they'd have love to have given Kwan that experience in 94. But the experience, opportunity and exposure is huge.  And the USFSA wants to give Polina that opportunity.  

Honestly, I don't get your point of comparing a junior skater who has only participated in junior events with many other senior skaters who have much more experience from formal international competitions. It's not just about who's technically superior...we all know that other than jumps, there are spins and steps (which are of no less difficulty than jumps, according to Dick Button) and the big PCS score. I accept the fact that in the end USFSA decided to send Polina. But there's just no guarantee that she will be able to perform as well as she did in US Nationals. And it's just rare, rare case when a junior skater makes a debut in his/her senior competition and gets sky high PCS, even skating clean.

Yes, the experience and opportunity of going to Olympics is huge. The reality is: can she handle something THAT huge? It's physically more demanding than any junior competitions she has attended so far, the exposure is emotionally even more harsh. I don't think I know this young skater well enough to come to a conclusion that it will definitely be a benefiting opportunity for her to go to both Olympics and worlds this year. But I do see that there's more, other than the technique part, for her to learn, in order to transform into one of the top, elite skaters.

All I want to say before bowing out is that: Is USFSA's decision in accordance with their rules? If you want to obey the rules, how do you justify sending Ashley but not Mirai? If it is USFSA's prejorative, then why bother making a guideline to stir up this controversy that will affect both Ashley and Polina negatively when it's not their faults that they were chosen over Mirai?
So is Polina the first skater to debut her senior at the Olympics? If neither Mirai nor Polina has a shot at the medal, why can't Mirai be chosen? It's not like Polina will give Julia a run for money. Polina will only be 19 at the next Olympics. If she is that promising, she has plenty of time to refine and improve all the elements and prove that she'll be able to survive puberty monster. If they want to give her international experience to grow as a skater, there are Worlds and 4CC. When a skater does poorly at the Olympics, the stress she has to endure will be several times nastier. Like Bekalac said, Tara and Michelle needed plenty of international experiences and failure to improve, even when they were early bloomers. They didn't pop out of thin air and then went to the Olympics.

bekalc wrote:

Before Tara won these events, they were already promoting Tara over some of their other youngsters, including a youngster who won a Junior World Title. Because they felt that Tara had more long term potential.  Tara didn't exactly do swimmingly at her first Senior Worlds but she won a year later.

Which to me sounds like...if a skater gifted as Tara couldn't do much in her first Senior Worlds after experiencing Nebelhorn and US Nats, there's no logic in sending a skater who just made her senior debut 1 month ago to Olys, when there is a more experienced skater who may not be in great condition, but nevertheless scored more or less the same as her.  

Quote :

They aren't thinking that either Polina or Mirai's going to win an Olympic medal, but I do think they are not necessarily fully convinced that Mirai would do better than Polina anyways.  With Mirai's underrotation issues, and Mirai hardly gets high PCS either by the international judges.

I'm not fully convinced that Mirai will do better than Polina either. But I'm also not convinced that Polina will do better than Mirai all the same. Plus I never imagined even for a split second that one of them might make the podium in Olys.  

Quote :

Polina has some really high tech content and the international judges have shown that they will reward young talented jumpers. (Look at Anna)  Yes  Polina didn't medal at the JGPF.  But the level at that JGPF It was probably the highest quality level in years.  The USFSA federation is seeing that the Russians have that many girls who can jump like that and so they are looking for an girl who can match that.  And Polina won TES at the JGPF in the free.  So for them its a positive sign and development.

Yeah, I get your point. But the bottom line is, the positive sign and development you claim the US Fed saw in Polina, remains merely a possibility. In most cases, skaters must prove in advance that they can actually make the most of their potentials in a major senior intl comp before they are acknowledged as truly capable to deliver in the most largest and important event such as Olys. As they obviously allowed  Polina to skip that part, sending her to Olys is nothing but a huge gamble. Plus it's too generous a gift considering how much potential Polina seems to have, so imo it's simply unfair they gave that gift to her instead of giving it to a skater with more experience who scored quite the same as her.

Quote :

Tara didn't win or place all that well at her first Senior worlds, nor did Michelle.  Its invaluable experience, I'm sure they'd have love to have given Kwan that experience in 94. But the experience, opportunity and exposure is huge.  And the USFSA wants to give Polina that opportunity.  They don't want to give the opportunity to someone who is going to be easily passed by the Russian Juniors.

ITA that the US Fed chose Polina for such reasons. The part I find wrong is that while they assumed Mirai would be torn into shreds by the Russian girls, I don't see any concrete evidence that Polina would  not.

Quote :

They need girls who are going to be competitive in the field.  Mirai hasn't demonstrated the technical content to do so, they are moving  on..

Exactly. That's the part I hate the most in all this; they are moving on!
As I've said, I do not see much of a difference between the possibility of how much Mirai and Polina can accomplish in Sochi. They're not going to come home with a medal anyway, too. So, what possible good can come out from sending them to Olys? If they send Mirai, it will be a confidence boost for her which may become her turning point enabling her to do better from next season on without losing faith in herself, the sport nor her country's Fed. If they send Polina, it will be a precious experience for her which may give her the advantage to become a better skater at an earlier stage than others her age. By sending them to Olys, they both have the possibility of becoming better in the near future. But they had to choose which one to give that opportunity to, and I feel they chose Polina simply because she's younger. Like you said, they moved on. But before they moved on, they dumped the older experienced skater whom they probably assumed her peak has passed hence she's finished. It was as if they sent a message to Mirai saying 'We prefer to take our chances on a younger inexperienced skater rather than you. In other words we don't think you can improve much anymore at all' when they decided not to include her. I think being treated like this by your Fed can really smash a senior skater's confidence or ambition to bits. But if they chose Mirai over Polina, no skater would've been that much damaged. If they keep on doing this, skaters over 20 are going to have an extra tough time aiming for Olys or Worlds compared to younger possibly talented skaters. More skaters will start to retire early. The US has been longing for a star skater to appear, but as they are not patient with even former top skaters, even if they manage to get one, that skater won't be around for long. The minute they feel they may be going down hill, they'll sense that their Fed is going to move on to a younger skater. They will feel abandoned and discouraged, so many of them won't have enough strength to go on. Skaters are human beings, not race horses. Nobody has the right to conclude any skater has passed their peak nor label he/she/they as finished whatever condition they may be in or however old they are.

I agree with mostly everything you've described on why the US Fed chose Polina.
I'm only saying they did the wrong thing. 

ETA:

pearlyriver wrote:

If neither Mirai nor Polina has a shot at the medal, why can't Mirai be chosen? It's not like Polina will give Julia a run for money. Polina will only be 19 at the next Olympics. If she is that promising, she has plenty of time to refine and improve all the elements and prove that she'll be able to survive puberty monster. If they want to give her international experience to grow as a skater, there are Worlds and 4CC. When a skater does poorly at the Olympics, the stress she has to endure will be several times nastier. Like Bekalac said, Tara and Michelle needed plenty of international experiences and failure to improve, even when they were early bloomers. They didn't pop out of thin air and then went to the Olympics.

This was what I was trying to say basically. You said it better pearlyriver, thank you!  
It's so simply like she's written here; since the younger skater doesn't look prepared for Olys anyways, why not give the older skater a chance? If they want to give the young 'promising' skater a huge experience, what's wrong with Worlds or 4CC? Being given a shot for either of those 2 comps would've been honor enough for a skater with Polina's background. Everyone could've ended up feeling okay that way.

sweetdream wrote:

But to be honest, Polina was held up very highly on PCS, and I feel that had a huge part to push her higher above Mirai. I mean there was a point where her PCS was higher than Ashley! I mean don't get me mad, Ashley really bombed technically, but PCS is something on reputation, grace, artistry and Polina was very juniorish, and she has neither the reputation from being out in senior competitions and international competitions to show her stuff. And comparing to wunderkinds her age getting big scores, at least they had the senior competitions to prove their worth. Inflations were given but not arbitrary.

So I feel, she may be propped up for it, she did the good programmes but the judges also wanted to place her above Mirai. Which is kind of sad I guess, seeing how Mirai has progressed. And not even a worlds placing for Mirai and everyone else (Max, D/C got one) is insane, and even unfair.

No argument from me here. IMO, she's in for a giant shock at Oly's. No way will she score anywhere near at what she was gifted at Nats. However, from the placement point of view (regardless of how she atained it) she does deserve to go to Worlds. Ashley however, placed off the podium (I don't really get why USFSA is putting a 4th placed skater/s on the podium) and not only is she going to Oly's, she's also going to Worlds. Now where's the logic and justice in this? They are sending Max to worlds over Jason, despite Max losing to Jason by 10 points, they're sending D/C to worlds if they'll be healthy, yet in womens nothing has changed. A 4th placer is still being send over the bronze medallist. Someone pass me a bucket.   

So I assume this was the last national championship? considering that it doesn't matter how you place at Nats, why hold it then.   

As for Polina and USFS hope of her stacking against Julia. Have they seen Julia? She will destroy Polina.

Does anyone have the video when the announcement was made?

Mao_Asada_sunrise wrote:

Does anyone have the video when the announcement was made?

I just have the NBC fluff.

I'm rooting for Ashley to come as close as possible to the podium at Sochi.

Reality check US media hoes: Gracie does not have enough international credentials nor the reputation to be a contender at Sochi. She ain't even won an international title yet. So y'all can stop damn trying to make Gracie the Queen of US Figure Skating.

I swear to God I'm gonna laugh so damn hard when Gracie and Polina skate great at Sochi .... and then get 165 total (Polina) and 175 total (Gracie). Prove me wrong ladies. I'd LOVE to see you try.

ilovethai wrote:

I'm rooting for Ashley to come as close as possible to the podium at Sochi.

Reality check US media hoes: Gracie does not have enough international credentials nor the reputation to be a contender at Sochi. She ain't even won an international title yet. So y'all can stop damn trying to make Gracie the Queen of US Figure Skating.

I swear to God I'm gonna laugh so damn hard when Gracie and Polina skate great at Sochi .... and then get 165 total (Polina) and 175 total (Gracie). Prove me wrong ladies. I'd LOVE to see you try.

I'm actually rooting for Gracie to come as close as possible to the podium in Sochi, instead of Ashley.    If she delivers judges will put her there, have you seen the SP score she was given for that awful Gershwin? It was higher than Ashley's. She is the new queen of USFSA and you can bet they will politick for her. Polina on the other hand is in for a shock, I agree with this.

Up until this season, Ashley has been held up, but now, I see her being dropped in favour of Gracie, and with Frank by her side, she just might make an upset. Though going over Julia is going to be mighty difficult. So I don't see Gracie or any American lady for that matter on the podium, however, IMO, Gracie can very well come in fourth. Nats has surely been a giant confidence booster for her.

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

bekalc wrote:

Exactly. That's the part I hate the most in all this; they are moving on!
As I've said, I do not see much of a difference between the possibility of how much Mirai and Polina can accomplish in Sochi. They're not going to come home with a medal anyway, too. So, what possible good can come out from sending them to Olys? If they send Mirai, it will be a confidence boost for her which may become her turning point enabling her to do better from next season on without losing faith in herself, the sport nor her country's Fed. If they send Polina, it will be a precious experience for her which may give her the advantage to become a better skater at an earlier stage than others her age. By sending them to Olys, they both have the possibility of becoming better in the near future. But they had to choose which one to give that opportunity to, and I feel they chose Polina simply because she's younger. Like you said, they moved on. But before they moved on, they dumped the older experienced skater whom they probably assumed her peak has passed hence she's finished. It was as if they sent a message to Mirai saying 'We prefer to take our chances on a younger inexperienced skater rather than you. In other words we don't think you can improve much anymore at all' when they decided not to include her. I think being treated like this by your Fed can really smash a senior skater's confidence or ambition to bits. But if they chose Mirai over Polina, no skater would've been that much damaged. If they keep on doing this, skaters over 20 are going to have an extra tough time aiming for Olys or Worlds compared to younger possibly talented skaters. More skaters will start to retire early. The US has been longing for a star skater to appear, but as they are not patient with even former top skaters, even if they manage to get one, that skater won't be around for long. The minute they feel they may be going down hill, they'll sense that their Fed is going to move on to a younger skater. They will feel abandoned and discouraged, so many of them won't have enough strength to go on. Skaters are human beings, not race horses. Nobody has the right to conclude any skater has passed their peak nor label he/she/they as finished whatever condition they may be in or however old they are.

I agree with mostly everything you've described on why the US Fed chose Polina.
I'm only saying they did the wrong thing. 

They feel Mirai-as she is skating now is finished.  If Mirai were to come out next year at the GP, and start skating well with good enough content to make the GPF, Mirai's scores at US Nationals would sky rocket.  Just as they did when Ashley two years ago had her break out GP Season, and Alissa had huge improvements and medaled at the GPF three years ago.  Both girls were over 20.

All the USFSA wants is people who get results for them.  And its their job to look for this.  IF they have an older skater who is performing extremely well internationally-they will go with them.  If they have a younger skater who shows extreme talent with high 3/3's, and a lot of their senior talent is not getting huge results internationally, then they will give the younger talent opportunities.

The point of the matter is once again, Mirai has had the same opportunities as Ashley and Alissa had to go out there do well at international events, and build a reputation with her federation.  Instead she's been a mess for the last 3.5/4 years.  The fact that her fans even say what Mirai will show up good Mirai or bad Mirai-is frankly telling.

Once again these were good skates for Mirai but they had problems. No difficult 3/3 and also, Scott is correct that the programs didn't have much choreography, had stops and pauses etc. Its not exactly going to get huge PCS internationally. Now I do think that Polina was given a boost by US judges, but once again their feelings about wanting to give Polina chances is frankly absolutely justified.

zarinaballerina wrote:

ilovethai wrote:

I'm rooting for Ashley to come as close as possible to the podium at Sochi.

Reality check US media hoes: Gracie does not have enough international credentials nor the reputation to be a contender at Sochi. She ain't even won an international title yet. So y'all can stop damn trying to make Gracie the Queen of US Figure Skating.

I swear to God I'm gonna laugh so damn hard when Gracie and Polina skate great at Sochi .... and then get 165 total (Polina) and 175 total (Gracie). Prove me wrong ladies. I'd LOVE to see you try.

I'm actually rooting for Gracie to come as close as possible to the podium in Sochi, instead of Ashley.    If she delivers judges will put her there, have you seen the SP score she was given for that awful Gershwin? It was higher than Ashley's. She is the new queen of USFSA and you can bet they will politick for her. Polina on the other hand is in for a shock, I agree with this.

Up until this season, Ashley has been held up, but now, I see her being dropped in favour of Gracie, and with Frank by her side, she just might make an upset. Though going over Julia is going to be mighty difficult. So I don't see Gracie or any American lady for that matter on the podium, however, IMO, Gracie can very well come in fourth. Nats has surely been a giant confidence booster for her.

Please don't hate me, but I don't remember what Ashley has been skating to. The only program I remember is Black Swan, but it was due to the fact that her arm movement looked like spasm and she was nothing like a swan I pictured in my head. i don't like Ashley personality-wise, or to be more precise, the persona she presents in public. She strikes me as that deceptively sweet and nice girl at high school who pleases every one but she would backstab me when I didn't notice. Sorry, can't help thinking that. I'm aware that personality is not part of scoring. Gracie is not an angel either, considering what she's been babbering on the television but at least I enjoyed her pros this season (I can't believe I'm saying this, but she has improved a lot since working with Frank).

pearlyriver wrote:

Please don't hate me, but I don't remember what Ashley has been skating to. The only program I remember is Black Swan, but it was due to the fact that her arm movement looked like spasm and she was nothing like a swan I pictured in my head. i don't like Ashley personality-wise, or to be more precise, the persona she presents in public. She strikes me as that deceptively sweet and nice girl at high school who pleases every one but she would backstab me when I didn't notice. Sorry, can't help thinking that. I'm aware that personality is not part of scoring. Gracie is not an angel either, considering what she's been babbering on the television but at least I enjoyed her pros this season (I can't believe I'm saying this, but she has improved a lot since working with Frank).  

Aside from talent and technique, skating is also about the packaging. We've seen good and bad scenarios over the years, and I'm just relieved that Ms. Gold's gamble paid off.


.


Meanwhile, Virtue/Moir, Kaetlyn Osmond and Patrick Chan won Canadian nationals. No surprise there. Sadly, Mervin Tran and his new partner, Natasha Purich, didn't qualify for Sochi. They missed the third spot by ~6 points, and placed 4th.

bekalc wrote:

They feel Mirai-as she is skating now is finished.  If Mirai were to come out next year at the GP, and start skating well with good enough content to make the GPF, Mirai's scores at US Nationals would sky rocket.  Just as they did when Ashley two years ago had her break out GP Season, and Alissa had huge improvements and medaled at the GPF three years ago.  Both girls were over 20.

All the USFSA wants is people who get results for them.  And its their job to look for this.  IF they have an older skater who is performing extremely well internationally-they will go with them.  If they have a younger skater who shows extreme talent with high 3/3's, and a lot of their senior talent is not getting huge results internationally, then they will give the younger talent opportunities.

The point of the matter is once again, Mirai has had the same opportunities as Ashley and Alissa had to go out there do well at international events, and build a reputation with her federation.  Instead she's been a mess for the last 3.5/4 years.  The fact that her fans even say what Mirai will show up good Mirai or bad Mirai-is frankly telling.

Once again these were good skates for Mirai but they had problems. No difficult 3/3 and also, Scott is correct that the programs didn't have much choreography, had stops and pauses etc.  Its not exactly going to get huge PCS internationally.  Now I do think that Polina was given a boost by US judges, but once again their feelings  about wanting to give Polina chances is frankly absolutely justified.[/quote]

No, their reasons for wanting to give Polina a chance can be understood, but that doesn't mean it's absolutely just. I don't mind if you feel differently, but plz stop making it seem like the US Fed had all the right in the world to consider Mirai as a finished skater. Even if it wasn't enough for them, she skated the best she had in Nats over the past few seasons. She is showing progress.

It certainly is the US Fed's job to choose who has the highest possibility of winning, I agree. But I think it's clear to everyone that if not GG or Ashley, no US lady has a chance for the podium in Sochi anyway. I remember you've said yourself that Polina has no chance of getting a medal, and they chose her just to give her a huge experience to become better in the future. But you've suddenly shifted your point to the US Fed's responsibility to select who can get the best results. I assume you had to to avoid pearlyriver's claim that if they only wanted to give a promising young skater an experience in a major intl competition, why did they not simply choose to send Polina to Worlds or 4CC.

As much as Mirai, Polina has given us no actual evidence that she is totally capable of making good results in Olys. If she had, nobody would've had any problems about her being chosen to be an Olympian. But there are many people who do have a problem with it, and that's going to add more pressure to Polina than which she already has to deal with on having Olys be the first intl senior competition she's ever entered. From what I've heard she didn't seem all happy and excited about being chosen for Olys at all. When I think about it from Polina's side, I can't help wondering if she considers this a gift or a burden.