ISU European Championships 2014 (1/13- 1/19)

josling wrote:

Wow the German commentator just said that the ISU plans that the commentators will hear what the three technical specialists are discussing while competition in the future. And that maybe these audio tapes will be released to the public after competition ...
So maybe we will hear what Amano thinks while downgrading Mao's beautiful 3A in the future...?!
(If she only would continue competing after this season.... ;( )

This is a great idea. Why didn't they think of that right after Vancouver...

linglang wrote:

But, what really bothers and worries me is even when she skated lights out, her PCS was held down at GPF SP.  Is there any tendency that judges hold down PCS for SP in comparison to FS, I mean in terms of absolute values (without those 0.80/1.60 factors). If that's the case my anxiety will be eased a little bit.  I want to ask Lori, if I could, if she agrees with 34.91 for that fabulous performance.  I really don't get it.  The program is so well choreographed in all those five components, but the score remained in 8s. I don't get score of 8.39 for transition/linking footwork in particular on top of those 8s for the other components.    Especially when you witness those PCS boost tendency with other skaters including men.

Judges tend to be more willing to give higher PCS scores in the LP, and sometimes they base it on how well you do in the SP. I thought she deserved more but at least she still has the highest PCS in the SP for ISU competitions this season.
Despite Julia's win, I still don't feel she is Russia's no.1 based on Adelina still getting the higher PCS despite a less perfect and easier layout. Or it is not clear who is their best skater. It is pretty clear that they see Adelina as a more polished skater, but Julia is a far better competitor. This could be a good sign for Yuna and Mao. I think both have room for one major error, more or less. Mao can afford a mistake on one axel, but not two (if she goes for the 2nd layout), and she has to perfect in everything else.

polosatik wrote:

I'm getting worried day by day, well of course Olympics are close but seeing such scores for Julia   If Yuna and Mao will make even tiny mistakes, Julia will take the gold. Her scores yesterday made it clear.
And maybe I'm weird or maybe there's something wrong with me but while all Russian fans were in tears after Julia's Lp, I felt nothing. It was clean, she did all her elements, but there was one wonky landing after 2a. But what else? I find Adelina's Lp performance more moving then Julia's.

If there's something wrong with you polosatik, then there's something wrong with me too. I far more enjoyed Adelina than Julia this time, and I'm sure that if Adelina skates clean most people would've felt the same.

There's no doubt Julia has become a much better skater than last season, and her skills are amazing. But she doesn't seem to skate to the music, and certainly does not become it. So in the end, Julia showcases all her fascinating skills which makes me go WOW! but nevertheless doesn't move me much. If there are people in tears after watching her FP, I think it's mostly just the "Shindler's List"-cry-if-you're-human phenomenon working there. It's also a well made program which covers up many of Julia's weak points; not being able to smile while skating being one of them. I think most top level skaters can make this pro more dramatic and appealing, but Julia not being an expressive type skater, kinds of skates through it on her own showing no interest in attaching to the music nor the audience as usual. But for this particular program, it works. The costume being a dress-coat gives the illusion that she is not skating in an indoor rink full of people around, but that she is a girl skating outdoors in solitude detached from whatever is going on in the world around her. There being no bond between Julia and the audience makes her look more lonely and helpless which makes the whole picture a push into the tear dropping effect, I think. I think it can easily make people feel Julia is expressive while she still hasn't developed that part much at all, and it that sense it is a tailor-made program which fits a skater like her perfectly.

But when you see it with the music off, it won't seem half as good. Esp this time, her landings didn't have much flow, and I even got the impression Julia doesn't bother to take full control of her moves after she finishes landing. She just lets her arms and legs down as they go, and I feel that's such a pity cause her jumps would look much better if she cared for them. Otoh, Adelina takes full care for her body movements. Even during the first half of her FP when the music is calm, she moves dynamically which makes everything she does look huge and appealing. I can feel she's trying to reach out to the audience and grasp their hearts. So even if she flunks a jump or two, I can still enjoy her energy and physical abilities fully. In her case, I think it may be because she has so much energy that she sometimes loses control on her jumps. But one thing Adelina has and Julia totally doesn't have I think is rhythm. Adelina is always in contact with her music, and she knows which moves to emphasize and which not in order to make the audience feel the rhythm through her. If Julia is doing that as well in her FP, I would say she's great, but since she isn't, I can hardly agree with that judge who scored her 10 for interpretation.

However, they have done well overall, so if they skated like they did this time and Yuna skated like she did in Kor Nats, I'd have no problem placing them over her. Mao should watch out for Adelina and Julia the most imo. They're jumps are becoming consistent, and they can also gain lots of points for their spins. While the media is making it seem like we're in for a Mao vs Yuna battle only, with the US media trying desperately to push GG in to the scene, I think there's a high chance of Adelina or Julia making the podium too. I like them both so I don't mind them both on the podium as long as they have Mao in the middle. 

I just watched Julia's performance. I agree that after an interesting beginning, she just goes through the motions, without really feeling the music. The difference is so obvious when you compare her to Kostner's performance. I'm not a fan of the reworked Bolero choreography. The last salchow was a highlight and made it the program unique. I've seen people on other forums claim Julia is the best 15 year old skater. Seriously? Baiul and Kwan's presentation skills were far more impressive at that age.

What's with all the photobucket backdrop. It's driving me crazy...or am I the only one who can see it?

shar wrote:

What's with all the photobucket backdrop. It's driving me crazy...or am I the only one who can see it?

Sorry,    my account got limited suddenly and it crushed, I change everything, hope it works now! I'm really sorry guys!  

polosatik wrote:

shar wrote:

What's with all the photobucket backdrop. It's driving me crazy...or am I the only one who can see it?

Sorry,    my account got limited suddenly and it crushed, I change everything, hope it works now! I'm really sorry guys!  

   It's fixed now.

You don't have to apologize. I was just worried that I wouldn't be able to have access to this site. I'm glad it was a minor issue.   

polosatik wrote:

shar wrote:

What's with all the photobucket backdrop. It's driving me crazy...or am I the only one who can see it?

Sorry,    my account got limited suddenly and it crushed, I change everything, hope it works now! I'm really sorry guys!  

Oh, I am glad to hear that   
I thought the forum was attacked   as I had seen
a strange photo appearing here some time ago as well

I guess most of you have already watched the competition: Volosozhar/Trankov have won overall but their performance in the FS was far from perfect. They looked worried at the end. They've been skating incredibly well the whole season (not so much at the GPF but they also did a good job there) so I can understand them being worried, especially considering their meltdowns in past seasons. Not the best moment to have these problems again. Nevertheless, they're great technically and they will win hands down if they are perfect in Sochi...but they seem not to be that consistent anymore (compared to the Grand Prix series). I don't love their FS but I like their SP despite bringing back bad memories to me (Mao's FS 2009 worlds...4th place   ). And I loved S/K's FS to the Adams family theme, not only great technically but also very expressive program.

BTW, a little off-topic but I would like to ask something to our Russian members. It's about how to pronounce some names correctly:

1) The -zh- in, for instance, Volosozhar sounds like (or similar) to an English "j" or am I wrong?
2) How is Alena in Alena Leonova pronounced? I heard some Russian comentators saying somethin like Aliona (I may be wrong, though). Is it the same name as Aliona Savchenko but directly translated?
3) Does the "y" in Tuktamysheva sound like the "e" in "me" or does it have a different sound?
4) Last one...in Lipnitskaya, Sotnikova, Tarasova, etc...where do you put the stress? I mean, is it LipnistkAAAAya or LipnIIItskaya, SotnikOOOva or SotnIIIkova?

That's all...I was curious to know   . Sorry for my long post full of questions...

Iceriver wrote:

I guess most of you have already watched the competition: Volosozhar/Trankov have won overall but their performance in the FS was far from perfect. They looked worried at the end. They've been skating incredibly well the whole season (not so much at the GPF but they also did a good job there) so I can understand them being worried, especially considering their meltdowns in past seasons. Not the best moment to have these problems again. Nevertheless, they're great technically and they will win hands down if they are perfect in Sochi...but they seem not to be that consistent anymore (compared to the Grand Prix series). I don't love their FS but I like their SP despite bringing back bad memories to me (Mao's FS 2009 worlds...4th place   ). And I loved S/K's FS to the Adams family theme, not only great technically but also very expressive program.

BTW, a little off-topic but I would like to ask something to our Russian members. It's about how to pronounce some names correctly:

1) The -zh- in, for instance, Volosozhar sounds like (or similar) to an English "j" or am I wrong?
2) How is Alena in Alena Leonova pronounced? I heard some Russian comentators saying somethin like Aliona (I may be wrong, though). Is it the same name as Aliona Savchenko but directly translated?
3) Does the "y" in Tuktamysheva sound like the "e" in "me" or does it have a different sound?
4) Last one...in Lipnitskaya, Sotnikova, Tarasova, etc...where do you put the stress? I mean, is it LipnistkAAAAya or LipnIIItskaya, SotnikOOOva or SotnIIIkova?

That's all...I was curious to know   . Sorry for my long post full of questions...

I can try to answer your questions)
1. Well, to be honest there is no exact sound in English I guess, so it's a mix of z and h. I don't think it should sound like j.
2. Alena Leonova and Aliona Savchanko have the same name and it pronounced the same, that's just the matter on translation. To me Aliona is more correct.
3. No, in Russian it is letter ы, which has no close sounds in English and that is very difficult to pronounce for foreigners. I don't think I can help you with this one.
4. There should be LipnIIItskaya,TarAAsova and SOOtnikova   

Oh thank you very much Polosatik for your fast and detailed response!   

I asked about the -zh- sound because the British Eurosport commentators seems to pronounce it like "j", just like they do with Chinese names such as Zhang or Zhao (any Chinese here can say something about this?   ) but I imagined the sound would be very different in reality. There's also a famous film (based on a book I believe and an overused piece of music in figure skating  ), Doctor Zhivago and they kept saying something like Givago. But again, I watched the film in Spanish and even the film is not Russian so I suppose they translated the sound as they wanted. I'm always trying to pronounce names well but it's sometimes difficult because sounds change so much from one language to another.

Iceriver wrote:

Oh thank you very much Polosatik for your fast and detailed response!   

I asked about the -zh- sound because the British Eurosport commentators seems to pronounce it like "j", just like they do with Chinese names such as Zhang or Zhao (any Chinese here can say something about this?   ) but I imagined the sound would be very different in reality. There's also a famous film (based on a book I believe and an overused piece of music in figure skating  ), Doctor Zhivago and they kept saying something like Givago. But again, I watched the film in Spanish and even the film is not Russian so I suppose they translated the sound as they wanted. I'm always trying to pronounce names well but it's sometimes difficult because sounds change so much from one language to another.

The sound "zh" in Mandarin gives me a hard time. It sounds like j but there's definitely more to that Maybe COHK or any Chinese speakers can help us with that. Some commentators pronounced Mao's name wrongly but I think we should give them a break. They don't speak Japanese and they probably have looked up how it's supposed to be pronounced but it's not an easy task. Same with Yuna's name. Her first name doesn't sound anything like Yuna, but she choses that romanization Yuna for convenience.

Iceriver wrote:

Oh thank you very much Polosatik for your fast and detailed response!   

I asked about the -zh- sound because the British Eurosport commentators seems to pronounce it like "j", just like they do with Chinese names such as Zhang or Zhao (any Chinese here can say something about this?   ) but I imagined the sound would be very different in reality. There's also a famous film (based on a book I believe and an overused piece of music in figure skating  ), Doctor Zhivago and they kept saying something like Givago. But again, I watched the film in Spanish and even the film is not Russian so I suppose they translated the sound as they wanted. I'm always trying to pronounce names well but it's sometimes difficult because sounds change so much from one language to another.

Zh in Zhivago and zh in Volosozhar is the same letter and sound Ж.   But I believe zh in Volosozhar and zh in Zhang should sound differently, but yeah you know, we can't blame them for wrong pronounciation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7AVy_CGL5k You can watch this video and listen to how commentator Soloviev is pronouncing it.

Iceriver wrote:

Oh thank you very much Polosatik for your fast and detailed response!   

I asked about the -zh- sound because the British Eurosport commentators seems to pronounce it like "j",

The British guys may be good commentators but they are most definitely NOT to be taken as a reference for pronunciation of anything that is not English!  

When I hear maɪkəl BreZEEna, Mayo Asado, Alexander Gaksi or Thomas Verner my ears are bleeding.  

In Volosozhar's case the "zh" pronunciation would only be a minor issue if they didn't also like to call her Volozharova from time to time.

Judging from the youtube videos, other commentators are doing much better job trying to pronounce the names as they should be.

Well, nobody's perfect, I guess 

I finally got to wathc Julia's LP. I don't get how people call her "unstoppable", "pure talent on the technical side", "underrated in PCS"   Her jumps look so shaky as everyone can see and I don't see how her skatings skills are better than what Carol and Adelina delivered. Presentation-wise, I only see a beautiful skating to a beautiful, powerful, heart-wrenching music played by a violin virtuoso. I can't expect anything else from a 15-year-old skater but certainly if the Games are not held in Sochi, no way would she reach 139 for her FS.   I don't see how her FS here is superior to what Mao and Yuna delivered in 2008.

kawaiimao wrote:

The British guys may be good commentators but they are most definitely NOT to be taken as a reference for pronunciation of anything that is not English!  

I still laugh sometimes when I remember how one of them called Yuzuru "Yazunuri" during the GPF  

pearlyriver wrote:

I finally got to wathc Julia's LP. I don't get how people call her "unstoppable", "pure talent on the technical side", "underrated in PCS" Her jumps look so shaky as everyone can see and I don't see how her skatings skills are better than what Carol and Adelina delivered.

I'm wondering whether Julia peaked here and at Nationals or if the fact that she was a little shaky here and there means that she will be even better in Sochi, since she will be working to perfect her performances even more   The Olympics seem so unpredictable now, but I do think that Julia is definitely a favorite for the bronze, if not higher than that.