Four Continents 2/7-11 2013

Pochi, I think it's wise to avoid certain threads in GS and FSU for our own sanity. I recommend reading skating blogs for recaps/commentaries. The bloggers have their favorites as well but they show a love and knowledge of the sport and a general appreciation for skaters. Criticisms can get harsh at times but they are mostly constructive and not just bashing based on a lack of actual fact or a skewing of facts to support one's own argument, which I see a lot on forums. ETA: Just make sure to avoid the comments on some of those blogs.

This Naked Ice blog is enjoyable.

"Say what you will about my girl Mao but there is one thing no one can deny:
she is one ballsy skater!
Regardless of what happens at worlds next month, this competition is proof that
no matter what people say about her,
Mao is an amazingly talented and gutsy competitor."

http://thenakedice.blogspot.jp/2013/02/2013-four-continents-championship.html#more

silenceisgolden wrote:

This Naked Ice blog is enjoyable.

"Say what you will about my girl Mao but there is one thing no one can deny:
she is one ballsy skater!
Regardless of what happens at worlds next month, this competition is proof that
no matter what people say about her,
Mao is an amazingly talented and gutsy competitor."

http://thenakedice.blogspot.jp/2013/02/2013-four-continents-championship.html#more

Yes!I love this girl blog!Truly enjoyable !

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

zarinaballerina wrote:

linglang wrote:

Re GS post.
I see some people wet their pants TWO DAYS IN ROW last weekend. Go and get diapers for worlds and beyond.

Heck yeah!!!
Go Mao!

Yep, Mao showed them that she's on and back for sure!

Just to be fair...there were quite a few people who praised Mao's performances highly in GS, too. But they can be divided into 2 groups I think. 1.Those who praised her for her challenge spirit, still predicting Mao will never be able to nail all the jumps in her layouts clean. / 2.Those who praised her for her challenge spirit, and have high hopes that she'll master that monstorous layout in the future perfectly. Group 1 obviously seems to have other faves, so I wouldn't blame them for wanting to think that way. They're frightened for sure and that's totally natural, cause there is no other lady who has the guts to attempt something like Mao did this time, even by the time we'll have Olys.

I looked back on what most of the basher's posts, and I kind of understood why it HAS to be Mao whom they hate the most. Mao may not be as consistent as some other top ladies, but she's got guts and strong will more than any other girl, and those haters can't help admitting it. Their faves will probably never attempt anything as risky as Mao does and they know it. They keep on saying their faves can do what Mao is challenging all the same, but they know deep down that thier faves will never go for it anyway. I think that's what irritates them more than anything. I'm seriously starting to feel sorry for them...they'll never be able to experience the excitement of following Mao in her insane fearless challenges.

In that sense too, I think we had the proper winners this time for both ladies and mens. It was heartbreaking to see Dai sink down, but the way he skated in the gala made me feel he won't give up anything, so I'm not worried that much. I think it was totally fair and well deserved for Kevin to win instead of Yuzu. Even with his quads Kevin isn't perfect yet, but he did challenge himself to overcome his weak points dramatically this season. Skating to a Miyamoto pro must have been a tough challenge for him but he went for it. I was really happy for him, just like the audience in Osaka. His performance moved them, and it didn't matter to them that a non-Jpnse skater won. I really loved how the audience was in this competition.

wow, do people really say such things? how do they prove their argument that mao's fellow competitors can do what mao is challenging herself to do? i don't see anyone else even attempting a triple axel and a triple triple at the same time along with very difficult footwork and spins. yu-na already declared in the past how she doesn't want to learn the triple axel and i don't see carolina trying it (seriously she's trying to preserve her body) or any of mao's japanese teammates. i know liza has a triple axel but is she even training it right now? did gracie ever say anything about competing with her triple axel anytime? i honestly can't see anyone else challenging themselves like what mao is challenging herself with. that's what i think is unique to mao fans. she is constantly changing her layouts. she is continuing to improve and takes on bigger and bigger challenges. she has so much potential ready to be unlocked and it's exciting for mao fans to watch her from competition to competition.

Please someone, help me, I'm insane Everytime I hear Odile variation, I'm doing this *just click on it*

Spoiler:

Alokya wrote:

Discussion on 4CC Ladies - they are very complementary about Mao!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9utfk3lxK-8&feature=player_embedded

Yeah, they are. I even learned something! It was nice to hear their opinion of Mao's 3F+3Lo and what seems to be the problem with it. And they don't think the 2A+3T should have been downgraded also.

There was just something I didn't like -- like pointing out the Japanese had their Nationals in December so they had a longer time to prepare while US Nats just ended and their skaters didn't have much time plus they had to travel far for the competition. While it's true their skaters didn't have much time, I think the Japanese skaters had it worse. Nationals right after GPF then a lot of shows to participate till mid-January. After that some of them had to compete in National events like Akiko. Dai had a new SP while Mao traveled all the way to Canada to tweak her programs, come back and start practicing her crazy layout...

Overall, though, it was a nice discussion.

-----

Polosatik, it's really addicting, isn't it?

roma wrote:

Polosatik, it's really addicting, isn't it?

Yep!!! But it's too much, I have to work!

swan wrote:

wow, do people really say such things? how do they prove their argument that mao's fellow competitors can do what mao is challenging herself to do? i don't see anyone else even attempting a triple axel and a triple triple at the same time along with very difficult footwork and spins. yu-na already declared in the past how she doesn't want to learn the triple axel and i don't see carolina trying it (seriously she's trying to preserve her body) or any of mao's japanese teammates. i know liza has a triple axel but is she even training it right now? did gracie ever say anything about competing with her triple axel anytime? i honestly can't see anyone else challenging themselves like what mao is challenging herself with. that's what i think is unique to mao fans. she is constantly changing her layouts. she is continuing to improve and takes on bigger and bigger challenges. she has so much potential ready to be unlocked and it's exciting for mao fans to watch her from competition to competition.

They totally ignore the 3A when they say their faves can do the same, swan. They only focus on the combos and other particular triples which some skaters tend to avoid. In a nutshell, they claim that all their faves can also go for a layout with all the triples in them, plus one or more 3-3s which includes something more difficult than a 3t-3t. They can dream all they want to; but then again, they're ignoring the 3A!

aoi88 wrote:

Pochi, I think it's wise to avoid certain threads in GS and FSU for our own sanity. I recommend reading skating blogs for recaps/commentaries. The bloggers have their favorites as well but they show a love and knowledge of the sport and a general appreciation for skaters. Criticisms can get harsh at times but they are mostly constructive and not just bashing based on a lack of actual fact or a skewing of facts to support one's own argument, which I see a lot on forums. ETA: Just make sure to avoid the comments on some of those blogs.

LOL, I agree aoi! But GS wasn't as bad as I imagined it to be (this time). I posted something a bit sarcastic not only to Mao bashers, but all the members who kept writing terrible thing about the US girls, and of course those who keep on arguing about their ego-based opinions on UR or not issues in general. I didn't hide my identity as a Mao fan but kept from praising her too much (otherwise, I'll be attacked as if I were a nazi given the fact most people there already know I'm Jpnse; being a Mao fan in GS is okay, but being a Jpnse Mao fan changes alot of things, sadly...). I just wrote however incomplete Mao's attempts in this competition were, her performances moved the audience and I think that means something. Afterwards, I got a PM from another Mao fan requesting me to post more often in GS, since she thinks there are far too few Mao fans there. I imagined how tough and lonely it must be for Mao fans like her in GS, but had to tell her I had been posting more under a different ID in the past, never ever wrote ill of Yuna or Koreans then, but still I had to deal with so many rude people calling me a Jap, treating me like a war-criminal pointing out political and historical issues even when I've only made comments on the sport, so I got sick of it and decided to post only when I really feel like it once or twice in a long while after experiencing all that. I felt bad but I had to tell her that I just don't like the atomosphere in GS, where so many members are addicted to 'playing judge', while the others indulge in fan wars. I'm sure she knows about our forum, but invited her here btw...afterall, it's obviously the nicest place for a Mao fan to be in.

I read blogger articles sometimes too. Mainly Tony's to learn, and Morozombie for a good laugh.

Phil Hersh wrote a real disgusting article on 4CC (as usual), bashing his own country's skaters which made me sick to the stomach even though I'm not American. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/globetrotting/chi-us-skaters-still-no-singular-senations-20130210,0,5895647.column

This article made Tony furious and I agreed on everything he wrote about it. http://www.flutzingaround.com/2013/02/doldrums-or-unpredictable-why-four.html

I seriously wonder if Hersh ever bothers to watch competitions, or if he only glances at the protocols before he writes a figure skating article. I absolutely see no sense of resprect towards the skaters in this guy. Plus he loves to arouse conspiracy theories based on comments to his articles posted by god knows who...so unprofessional!

Plus this time he had the nerve to mention not a single word on Mao's 8 triple layout or 3A attempt. He just wrote '...Mao Asada of Japan, whose free skate was riddled with sloppy jumps...'. Some of Mao's jumps may have been URd, but I don't think anyone would express them as 'sloppy' had they actually seen her performances.

This time more than GS, it was Hersh who really got on my nerves. I really find it hard to understand how some people esp in the US can stand this guy. The way he criticizes the US skaters will never do any good for them nor the sport. Simply hate him!

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

swan wrote:

wow, do people really say such things? how do they prove their argument that mao's fellow competitors can do what mao is challenging herself to do? i don't see anyone else even attempting a triple axel and a triple triple at the same time along with very difficult footwork and spins. yu-na already declared in the past how she doesn't want to learn the triple axel and i don't see carolina trying it (seriously she's trying to preserve her body) or any of mao's japanese teammates. i know liza has a triple axel but is she even training it right now? did gracie ever say anything about competing with her triple axel anytime? i honestly can't see anyone else challenging themselves like what mao is challenging herself with. that's what i think is unique to mao fans. she is constantly changing her layouts. she is continuing to improve and takes on bigger and bigger challenges. she has so much potential ready to be unlocked and it's exciting for mao fans to watch her from competition to competition.

They totally ignore the 3A when they say their faves can do the same, swan. They only focus on the combos and other particular triples which some skaters tend to avoid. In a nutshell, they claim that all their faves can also go for a layout with all the triples in them, plus one or more 3-3s which includes something more difficult than a 3t-3t. They can dream all they want to; but then again, they're ignoring the 3A!

aoi88 wrote:

Pochi, I think it's wise to avoid certain threads in GS and FSU for our own sanity. I recommend reading skating blogs for recaps/commentaries. The bloggers have their favorites as well but they show a love and knowledge of the sport and a general appreciation for skaters. Criticisms can get harsh at times but they are mostly constructive and not just bashing based on a lack of actual fact or a skewing of facts to support one's own argument, which I see a lot on forums. ETA: Just make sure to avoid the comments on some of those blogs.

LOL, I agree aoi! But GS wasn't as bad as I imagined it to be (this time). I posted something a bit sarcastic not only to Mao bashers, but all the members who kept writing terrible thing about the US girls, and of course those who keep on arguing about their ego-based opinions on UR or not issues in general. I didn't hide my identity as a Mao fan but kept from praising her too much (otherwise, I'll be attacked as if I were a nazi given the fact most people there already know I'm Jpnse; being a Mao fan in GS is okay, but being a Jpnse Mao fan changes alot of things, sadly...). I just wrote however incomplete Mao's attempts in this competition were, her performances moved the audience and I think that means something. Afterwards, I got a PM from another Mao fan requesting me to post more often in GS, since she thinks there are far too few Mao fans there. I imagined how tough and lonely it must be for Mao fans like her in GS, but had to tell her I had been posting more under a different ID in the past, never ever wrote ill of Yuna or Koreans then, but still I had to deal with so many rude people calling me a Jap, treating me like a war-criminal pointing out political and historical issues even when I've only made comments on the sport, so I got sick of it and decided to post only when I really feel like it once or twice in a long while after experiencing all that. I felt bad but I had to tell her that I just don't like the atomosphere in GS, where so many members are addicted to 'playing judge', while the others indulge in fan wars. I'm sure she knows about our forum, but invited her here btw...afterall, it's obviously the nicest place for a Mao fan to be in.

I read blogger articles sometimes too. Mainly Tony's to learn, and Morozombie for a good laugh.

Phil Hersh wrote a real disgusting article on 4CC (as usual), bashing his own country's skaters which made me sick to the stomach even though I'm not American. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/globetrotting/chi-us-skaters-still-no-singular-senations-20130210,0,5895647.column

This article made Tony furious and I agreed on everything he wrote about it. http://www.flutzingaround.com/2013/02/doldrums-or-unpredictable-why-four.html

I seriously wonder if Hersh ever bothers to watch competitions, or if he only glances at the protocols before he writes a figure skating article. I absolutely see no sense of resprect towards the skaters in this guy. Plus he loves to arouse conspiracy theories based on comments to his articles posted by god knows who...so unprofessional!

Plus this time he had the nerve to mention not a single word on Mao's 8 triple layout or 3A attempt. He just wrote '...Mao Asada of Japan, whose free skate was riddled with sloppy jumps...'. Some of Mao's jumps may have been URd, but I don't think anyone would express them as 'sloppy' had they actually seen her performances.

This time more than GS, it was Hersh who really got on my nerves. I really find it hard to understand how some people esp in the US can stand this guy. The way he criticizes the US skaters will never do any good for them nor the sport. Simply hate him!

PochinkoPotanko, did you post the comment on Tony's blog on the Japanese media not bashing their own skaters if they don't do well? If so, I thought it was you the moment I read it... it's your writing style. Tony is one hell of a writer, I must say, and if I get the chance, I will go out of my way to see that he gets a journalistic skating job with IceNetwork, USFSA, the ISU, or the Chicago Tribune (taking Hersh's spot). Of course, Tony has insulted USFSA and the ISU repeatedly, so I doubt that those two will happen.... but if they ever change from the corrupt and political organizations they are, I hope they give him a job. He would do a lot of good because he really knows his stuff.

Hersh drives me nuts. That Team Canton thing about "unfortunately, the skaters are doing nothing to promote the soap opera..." I was like - YOU'RE ENCOURAGING SCANDALS, you dope???? I doubt he actually watched the performances from 4CC, but if he did, he is so Gracie Gold and Ashley Wagner biased that he may have thought the exact same thing anyway. And at some point - when a formerly popular sport is dying in your country, PROMOTE IT. DON'T go all gloom and doom just because (taking Mirai as an example) someone got third in nationals after being on the Olympic team the year before that. Not to mention that Mirai won the bronze medal at 4CC right after that nationals.

Also, he is such a die-hard Meryl and Charlie fan that Tessa and Scott are the devil to him. At some point, the latter are also amazing ice dancers. Although I am a Davis/White fan, I really do love Tessa and Scott's skating and nobody can deny that they are good.

Phil Hersh rant over.

roma wrote:

Alokya wrote:

Discussion on 4CC Ladies - they are very complementary about Mao!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9utfk3lxK-8&feature=player_embedded

Yeah, they are. I even learned something! It was nice to hear their opinion of Mao's 3F+3Lo and what seems to be the problem with it. And they don't think the 2A+3T should have been downgraded also.

There was just something I didn't like -- like pointing out the Japanese had their Nationals in December so they had a longer time to prepare while US Nats just ended and their skaters didn't have much time plus they had to travel far for the competition. While it's true their skaters didn't have much time, I think the Japanese skaters had it worse. Nationals right after GPF then a lot of shows to participate till mid-January. After that some of them had to compete in National events like Akiko. Dai had a new SP while Mao traveled all the way to Canada to tweak her programs, come back and start practicing her crazy layout...

Overall, though, it was a nice discussion.

-----

Polosatik, it's really addicting, isn't it?

Right, but the point is that they had the time to tweak (or create, for Dai) a new program based on feedback from their federation and what they needed to work on. Mao had the time to get that new layout. In contrast, if Ashley had gone to defend her 4CC title, she couldn't have added her triple-triple in due to sheer lack of preparation time.

Japanese skaters do have the option to not participate in shows if they want to - it's their choice. I don't know whether or not they can ignore their inner competitions during the nationals to 4CC break. It is definitely hard to go straight from the GP season into nationals - I think a week before when Canadian nationals is generally held is a happy medium between getting off the GP circuit and having enough time to prepare for 4CC. However, for Japanese nationals, they know that they are going to it off the GP circuit. For US Nationals, they don't even have that blessing. The absolute second you learn you're getting assigned to 4CC, you have to buy a ticket, pack, and go. There is time for maybe one training session, possibly two, at home before you head out.

Alokya wrote:

PochinkoPotanko, did you post the comment on Tony's blog on the Japanese media not bashing their own skaters if they don't do well? If so, I thought it was you the moment I read it... it's your writing style. Tony is one hell of a writer, I must say, and if I get the chance, I will go out of my way to see that he gets a journalistic skating job with IceNetwork, USFSA, the ISU, or the Chicago Tribune (taking Hersh's spot). Of course, Tony has insulted USFSA and the ISU repeatedly, so I doubt that those two will happen.... but if they ever change from the corrupt and political organizations they are, I hope they give him a job. He would do a lot of good because he really knows his stuff.

Hersh drives me nuts. That Team Canton thing about "unfortunately, the skaters are doing nothing to promote the soap opera..." I was like - YOU'RE ENCOURAGING SCANDALS, you dope???? I doubt he actually watched the performances from 4CC, but if he did, he is so Gracie Gold and Ashley Wagner biased that he may have thought the exact same thing anyway. And at some point - when a formerly popular sport is dying in your country, PROMOTE IT. DON'T go all gloom and doom just because (taking Mirai as an example) someone got third in nationals after being on the Olympic team the year before that. Not to mention that Mirai won the bronze medal at 4CC right after that nationals.

Also, he is such a die-hard Meryl and Charlie fan that Tessa and Scott are the devil to him. At some point, the latter are also amazing ice dancers. Although I am a Davis/White fan, I really do love Tessa and Scott's skating and nobody can deny that they are good.

Phil Hersh rant over.

Yep that's me...I'm sure anyone here can figure that out! I lack vocabulary, so I tend to use the same words and phrases alot!

I kind of wanted to back up Tony about him assuming the Jpnse press would never write an article like Hersh, cause he's totally right. The Korean papers never write ill of their skaters other than Yuna too, however badly they've placed in a competition either to my knowledge. I actually read Hersh's article and was a bit shocked (again) about the way he wrote about his country's skaters; no hopes, no respect, no appreciation at all! If a Jpnse journalist ever wrote an article like that in Jpn, he/she would be bashed to pieces and would probabaly never be given another chance to write. In fact, probabaly before that, their bosses would never allow such articles to be published anyway.

I think criticizm can work in good ways in all fields, and that it is necessary. But they should be constructive not the other way around. Criticizing should be done in aims for a better future only. It's sad that some journalists and critics get carried away by their arrogance and forget that. Professional athletes are harshly criticized in Jpn just as they are in any country when they don't do well; that's totally okay cause their making tons of money from what they do, so accordingly are obligated to show us their worth it. But figure skating is an amateur sport. The skaters ultimately have no obligations to anyone. They may have sponsers but they benefit alot by using the skaters in their commercials and ads, so I don't think the skaters owe them much either.

I can't understand what problems Hersh has with an amateur sport like figure skating so much that he just has to insult the US skaters like that. He should learn something from the audience in Osaka; there were lots of footages of Jpnse fans greeting the US skaters so warmly during the tv broadcast. Those clips weren't shown on British Euro or other broadcasts I think...even Max who was hardly known to us till US Nats had fans wanting their photos taken with him.

Btw, Meryl and Charlie has lots of fans here too. We all think Tessa and Scott are fascinating as well, but I've always had the impression that we have more people rooting for Meryl and Charlie nowadays. The popularity of skaters depends alot not only on their performances, but also on what kind of people they are here. Meryl and Charlie seem much more modest in interviews and always puts in a nice word for Jpnse fans when they're interviewed here. Maybe Tessa and Scott do too, but I don't follow them much so I don't have much of any impression on them.

Here's a clip of Meryl and Charlie's victory interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnG31eVSvHU
You can see how much they're loved!

And here's Kevin's interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpQVqozLwN4
I think he was really surprised how so many people appreciate him in Jpn. Everyone loved it when he said how grateful he is for the audience coming and seeing him skate in Jpnse.

I simply think Jpnse fans can be this much warm and appreciative to foreign skaters even when our skaters lose to them, because we never drop hope on our skaters just for doing bad in a competition or two. We can always be happy and congradulate winners whoever they are, cause we trust our skaters in doing better next time. That's what I mean when I say Hersh should learn from our audience.

https://twitter.com/christina_gao/status/301818121474412545

Quote :

With Mao before the gala! #4CC2013 pic.twitter.com/ijIQ83Vl

Based on what Mao did at 4CC here's Jackie Wong's opinion on Mao and Yuna's based on content:

http://www.examiner.com/article/opining-on-four-continents-reassessing-asada-vs-kim

roma wrote:

Based on what Mao did at 4CC here's Jackie Wong's opinion on Mao and Yuna's based on content:

http://www.examiner.com/article/opining-on-four-continents-reassessing-asada-vs-kim

Good analysis. I agree with him that confidence will make all the difference here. The situation is reminiscent of 2008 season. Back then, Mao and Yuna were neck and neck. And after her first World win, Mao actually had the edge. Yuna's advantage has always been in her execution. She earns major points in GOE of her jumps. Mao went for the riskier layouts. She wasn't consistent all the time but when she went mostly clean, it was very exciting. During 2008-2009 season, Mao started fixing her flutz and became more inconsistent. Yuna's consistency and confidence rose and the gap widened between them. Also, it is true if surprising that even with two 3A's, Mao's layout for the Olympic season didn't really have much advantage in the BV over Yuna. And this isn't a smart strategy against a rival like Yuna or Patrick Chan who can earn high GOE's on their jumps. So the key for Mao now is confidence in her technique and herself and consistency. The good thing is that she also has. programs that are well-received by the judges unlike "Bells" and "Masquerade". If she keeps up the momentum, she can turn the tables. And then maybe this Olympics will actually be exciting.

aoi88 wrote:

roma wrote:

Based on what Mao did at 4CC here's Jackie Wong's opinion on Mao and Yuna's based on content:

http://www.examiner.com/article/opining-on-four-continents-reassessing-asada-vs-kim

Good analysis. I agree with him that confidence will make all the difference here. The situation is reminiscent of 2008 season. Back then, Mao and Yuna were neck and neck. And after her first World win, Mao actually had the edge. Yuna's advantage has always been in her execution. She earns major points in GOE of her jumps. Mao went for the riskier layouts. She wasn't consistent all the time but when she went mostly clean, it was very exciting. During 2008-2009 season, Mao started fixing her flutz and became more inconsistent. Yuna's consistency and confidence rose and the gap widened between them. Also, it is true if surprising that even with two 3A's, Mao's layout for the Olympic season didn't really have much advantage in the BV over Yuna. And this isn't a smart strategy against a rival like Yuna or Patrick Chan who can earn high GOE's on their jumps. So the key for Mao now is confidence in her technique and herself and consistency. The good thing is that she also has. programs that are well-received by the judges unlike "Bells" and "Masquerade". If she keeps up the momentum, she can turn the tables. And then maybe this Olympics will actually be exciting.

Well said aoi88, and I think that if Mao skates clean, and execute all of her jumps clean as well, she will surpass Yuna's Olympic FS score. She's already has 130 points and she wasn't even at her best yet.

aoi88 wrote:

roma wrote:

Based on what Mao did at 4CC here's Jackie Wong's opinion on Mao and Yuna's based on content:

http://www.examiner.com/article/opining-on-four-continents-reassessing-asada-vs-kim

Good analysis. I agree with him that confidence will make all the difference here. The situation is reminiscent of 2008 season. Back then, Mao and Yuna were neck and neck. And after her first World win, Mao actually had the edge. Yuna's advantage has always been in her execution. She earns major points in GOE of her jumps. Mao went for the riskier layouts. She wasn't consistent all the time but when she went mostly clean, it was very exciting. During 2008-2009 season, Mao started fixing her flutz and became more inconsistent. Yuna's consistency and confidence rose and the gap widened between them. Also, it is true if surprising that even with two 3A's, Mao's layout for the Olympic season didn't really have much advantage in the BV over Yuna. And this isn't a smart strategy against a rival like Yuna or Patrick Chan who can earn high GOE's on their jumps. So the key for Mao now is confidence in her technique and herself and consistency. The good thing is that she also has. programs that are well-received by the judges unlike "Bells" and "Masquerade". If she keeps up the momentum, she can turn the tables. And then maybe this Olympics will actually be exciting.

I have a question about the GOE's. I know that it's about how a skater executes a jump, but how do we know if a skater executes them well? Or at least how does a nonskater like me know if a jump was done well? I've heard it was the height and the area covered. Sometimes I think a jump was done well, but when I look at the protocol, it didn't receive a lot of GOE's. Kim does look like she has huge jumps.

Japanese sports magazine Number featured figure skating in its recent issue and had a report about Mao. Sorry I don't have time to translate it now. (I will do it later when I have time, or maybe tokitama translate it for us in her blog. )

(Note: The report was prepared before 4CC)

The report says she told Mr. Sato that she wanted to do 3A at nationals, but he said no because she tried it in only two run-throughts. She agreed with him and didn't attempt it at nationals. Starting from the new year, she eagerly practiced 3A and have her programs modified to include it. She even attempted it at ice shows, which was actually an appeal to Mr. Sato. She realized that she has to demonstrate to Mr. Sato that she's been doing it at high consistency in practices, and then she will be able to get a go from him. Mr. Sato laughed saying she's finally realized it. "Actually I'm the one who is most aggressive (among us). I want to let her attempt 3A. It's like come on! just convince me to say 'go for it'."

I'm so relieved to know that she will work on consistency under her coach's scrutiny. I'm sure she will make further improvement after gaining confidence at 4CC. I also strongly believe she will succeed to have her 3-3Lo ratified in competition eventually. (I know how difficult it is, especially watching Christopher Caluza's 3z-3Lo< which looked rotated for me )

The report has a wonderful comment from her too, which made my eyes watery especially the second half part. She's truly a hungry athlete.

Mao says "by challenging 3A and 3-3 in the latter half of this season, I will be able to include them from the beginning of the next season. Olympics will be the culmination (of what I've been aiming for all these years) Nobuo-sensei says that's our goal to reach. Yet, I realized there is no limit when it comes to techniques. I want to absorb new things every day and I want to keep improving not matter how old I get."

The report concluded that when Sato's experience, Asada's hard work and aggressiveness of the two come to work in harmony, we will be able to see a truly evolved Asada.

Yes! It's proven at 4CC that they are on the right track!! There are people who write off athletes easily and quickly. I just want to say to them take that! It seems her priority is to get all her jumps ratified by the panel with programs she thinks at highest technical difficulties for her, rather than simply pursuing a gold at competitions.

Go Mao-chan! Get the judges on the panel bloody noses by landing all those difficult jumps cleanly.

Mao_Asada_sunrise wrote:

aoi88 wrote:

roma wrote:

Based on what Mao did at 4CC here's Jackie Wong's opinion on Mao and Yuna's based on content:

http://www.examiner.com/article/opining-on-four-continents-reassessing-asada-vs-kim

Good analysis. I agree with him that confidence will make all the difference here. The situation is reminiscent of 2008 season. Back then, Mao and Yuna were neck and neck. And after her first World win, Mao actually had the edge. Yuna's advantage has always been in her execution. She earns major points in GOE of her jumps. Mao went for the riskier layouts. She wasn't consistent all the time but when she went mostly clean, it was very exciting. During 2008-2009 season, Mao started fixing her flutz and became more inconsistent. Yuna's consistency and confidence rose and the gap widened between them. Also, it is true if surprising that even with two 3A's, Mao's layout for the Olympic season didn't really have much advantage in the BV over Yuna. And this isn't a smart strategy against a rival like Yuna or Patrick Chan who can earn high GOE's on their jumps. So the key for Mao now is confidence in her technique and herself and consistency. The good thing is that she also has. programs that are well-received by the judges unlike "Bells" and "Masquerade". If she keeps up the momentum, she can turn the tables. And then maybe this Olympics will actually be exciting.

I have a question about the GOE's. I know that it's about how a skater executes a jump, but how do we know if a skater executes them well? Or at least how does a nonskater like me know if a jump was done well? I've heard it was the height and the area covered. Sometimes I think a jump was done well, but when I look at the protocol, it didn't receive a lot of GOE's. Kim does look like she has huge jumps.

One thing I know is there are educational videos for judges to learn what's good and what's bad. They are available not only for jumps but also for other elements. It is said unfair because the video uses active competitive skaters' performances, so there is a risk for judges likely to be influenced by preconceived ideas associated with skaters used in the videos. (well, the videos are not always comparing different skaters. I've seen one video which uses Kostner for good and bad examples in parallel.)

Mao_Asada_sunrise wrote:

I have a question about the GOE's. I know that it's about how a skater executes a jump, but how do we know if a skater executes them well? Or at least how does a nonskater like me know if a jump was done well? I've heard it was the height and the area covered. Sometimes I think a jump was done well, but when I look at the protocol, it didn't receive a lot of GOE's. Kim does look like she has huge jumps.

Quote :

c) Grade of Execution (GOE)
Every Judge will mark the quality of execution of every element depending on the positive features of the execution and errors on the seven grades of execution scale: +3, +2, +1, Base Value, -1, -2, -3. For this first he evaluates the positive features of the element that might increase the Base Value to a + Value and then reduces the result because of errors if any of these are committed. Each + or - grade has its own + or - numerical value indicated in the Scale of Value (SOV) Table. This value is added to the Base Value of the element (or deducted from it).

In marking the GOE the following must be considered:
a) jumps: the height, length, technique and the clean starting and landing of the required jumps, in the case of pairs, credit must be given to the jump of each partner according to its merit;
b) jump combination/sequence: the perfect execution of the jumps in relation to their difficulty, each jump must be given credit according to its merit;
c) lifts/twist lifts: the speed, the height, the continuous rotation, smoothness of the take-off and landing, good coverage of the ice surface, the position of the Lady in the air;
d) throw jumps: the height, the distance, the take-off and clean landing of the Lady, the position of the Lady in the air;
e) death spirals: a smooth entry and exit, the even descent into the spiral by the Lady, the maintenance of the pivot position by the Man and the position of the Lady's body and head should be close to the ice surface during the execution of the actual death spiral;
f) spins: quality of the required positions, strong and well controlled rotation, number of revolutions in the required position(s), speed of rotation, centering of the spin. In flying spins the height of the jump and the position in the air and landing;
g) step and choreographic sequences: the swing, carriage and smooth flow of the movement in conformity with the character and the rhythm of the music.
The guidelines for this marking are published and updated in ISU Communications.

Remarks:
Jump combinations and sequences are evaluated as "one unit".
Jump combination: the Base Values of the jumps included are added. The numerical value of GOE for result calculation is related to the jump with the highest value.
A jump sequence is evaluated as one unit. The Base Values of the two most difficult jumps included are added. The factor of 0.8 is applied for the sum. Following that the numerical value of GOE for result calculation is related to the
102
jump with the highest value.
The factored Base Value of the Jump combination/sequence will be rounded to two decimal places.

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

Mao_Asada_sunrise wrote:

I have a question about the GOE's. I know that it's about how a skater executes a jump, but how do we know if a skater executes them well? Or at least how does a nonskater like me know if a jump was done well? I've heard it was the height and the area covered. Sometimes I think a jump was done well, but when I look at the protocol, it didn't receive a lot of GOE's. Kim does look like she has huge jumps.

Quote :

c) Grade of Execution (GOE)
Every Judge will mark the quality of execution of every element depending on the positive features of the execution and errors on the seven grades of execution scale: +3, +2, +1, Base Value, -1, -2, -3. For this first he evaluates the positive features of the element that might increase the Base Value to a + Value and then reduces the result because of errors if any of these are committed. Each + or - grade has its own + or - numerical value indicated in the Scale of Value (SOV) Table. This value is added to the Base Value of the element (or deducted from it).

In marking the GOE the following must be considered:
a) jumps: the height, length, technique and the clean starting and landing of the required jumps, in the case of pairs, credit must be given to the jump of each partner according to its merit;
b) jump combination/sequence: the perfect execution of the jumps in relation to their difficulty, each jump must be given credit according to its merit;
c) lifts/twist lifts: the speed, the height, the continuous rotation, smoothness of the take-off and landing, good coverage of the ice surface, the position of the Lady in the air;
d) throw jumps: the height, the distance, the take-off and clean landing of the Lady, the position of the Lady in the air;
e) death spirals: a smooth entry and exit, the even descent into the spiral by the Lady, the maintenance of the pivot position by the Man and the position of the Lady's body and head should be close to the ice surface during the execution of the actual death spiral;
f) spins: quality of the required positions, strong and well controlled rotation, number of revolutions in the required position(s), speed of rotation, centering of the spin. In flying spins the height of the jump and the position in the air and landing;
g) step and choreographic sequences: the swing, carriage and smooth flow of the movement in conformity with the character and the rhythm of the music.
The guidelines for this marking are published and updated in ISU Communications.

Remarks:
Jump combinations and sequences are evaluated as "one unit".
Jump combination: the Base Values of the jumps included are added. The numerical value of GOE for result calculation is related to the jump with the highest value.
A jump sequence is evaluated as one unit. The Base Values of the two most difficult jumps included are added. The factor of 0.8 is applied for the sum. Following that the numerical value of GOE for result calculation is related to the
102
jump with the highest value.
The factored Base Value of the Jump combination/sequence will be rounded to two decimal places.

Oh wow.... That's so much to read. Lol! I read the ones pertaining to the singles. What do they mean by "clean" starting? Is it position, speed, etc.?

I think clean starting can also mean clean take off, edge etc.

polosatik wrote:

I think clean starting can also mean clean take off, edge etc.

Oh okay! I'm starting to get a clearer understanding of GOE's.

I'm thinking of Mao's flip now. Why doesn't it get more GOE's if it's such a clean take off? I mean, she doesn't get an "e" next to it usually. Is it because of the height of her jump or the area it covers? How high and how big does a jump have to be so it can be considered as a "good" jump?

Wait. Isn't there a section for learning more about jumps in this forum? LOL!

Mao_Asada_sunrise wrote:

polosatik wrote:

I think clean starting can also mean clean take off, edge etc.

Oh okay! I'm starting to get a clearer understanding of GOE's.

I'm thinking of Mao's flip now. Why doesn't it get more GOE's if it's such a clean take off? I mean, she doesn't get an "e" next to it usually. Is it because of the height of her jump or the area it covers? How high and how big does a jump have to be so it can be considered as a "good" jump?

The problem is that Mao flip is not that good either, to get a big GOE she has to improve distance,and height also. When Mao was little her jumps had flow and fast rotations, not so much now. But if you compare her jumps from 2010 and now, it got much better. She was leaning too much forward at the take off, now it's gone, the height is better. Also if Mao can improve her speed at spins,it would be perfect! She has good positions, centring is also good. Our girl improved a lot in every aspect of her skating, and she won't stop. So I'm happy for now!

Mao_Asada_sunrise wrote:

Wait. Isn't there a section for learning more about jumps in this forum? LOL!

There will be! It's under construction now. I was going to take care of the videos, but my old Premiere trial has run out, and I can't install the new version because it needs an x64 Windows, and I have the x32 version. I need to finally upgrade my computer sometime soon, but the very thought of re-installing my 6464864863 programs makes me .
Or maybe somebody knows of a decent video program that runs smoothly and supports many video tracks..?

Anyway, I'll post a bit more about GoEs on different jumps with eamples of most common technique flaws in an hour or so (I need to buy some cat food, or my kitty will eat me ). I'll just quickly paste what I wrote yesterday and couldn't post because of a power failure:

I saw some posters worrying that the Technical Caller didn't appreciate Mao's step sequence in the LP: actually, she lost the edge at the beginning and it caused her to miss one of the requirements. If you look at the video from the Nationals, the step sequence begins with kick/loop -> change of leg -> twizzle -> 3 turn -> rockers and so on. This fulfills half of this bullet point for lvl4 step sequence:

Quote :

4) Two different combinations of 3 difficult turns (rockers, counters, brackets, twizzles, loops) quickly executed within the sequence

If you look at the 4CC LP video, she skids while she's on the RBO (right back outside) edge just after doing the twizzle and has to support herself with the left leg - in result, the combination of quick turns is disrupted. Just a freak accident, hopefully it won't happen again.