What Mao needs to do for next season?

Ok, I know we have that "Mao's strategy going forward" thread, but it's getting kind of long, so I thought I'd start a new thread.

After Worlds, I’ve done a lot of thinking, and these are the things I think Mao should work on.

1) Be Mao and have fun!
I said this in the other forum, but I think we fans all agree that more than seeing win Mao medal, we love to see Mao’s heartfelt, unrestrained smile. I think learning to enjoy the competitions again will help take away some of the pressure and nerves, and help her skate with confidence!

Ok, onto specific skating-related stuff

2) Increase speed in spirals and spins, and be sure to get level 4s
-Watching the skaters live, I could see firsthand that Mao’s spirals are considerably slower than the other skaters (even though her positions are gorgeous). She barely covers the ice, while Yu-Na and others make full laps of the rink. I did not notice her being slow in the spins as much, but MissAero and tianrushui told me they looked slow, and I agreed that it didn’t seem that Mao got as many rotations in as she usually does. She should definitely work on these things; I think they are easily within her reach.
-As for getting level 4s – Mao definitely needs to do this. I think she’s perfectly capable of it, and there’s no reason to be giving up easy points.

3) Nail the 3Lz
-I was going through potential jump layouts for Mao’s LP (which I talk about more below), and it became clear to me that nailing the 3Lz is absolutely necessary for Mao to keep the base value edge over Yu-Na and Miki. Since Mao’s 3S is still inconsistent, and it doesn’t look like the ISU will institute the 5-triple bonus rule next year, I think she should focus on getting the 3Lz perfect. Without the 3Lz or 3S, Mao can only do 6 triples, max.

4) Nail the 3F-3T
-Of course, nailing the 3F-3Lo would be even better, but unless the tech callers start judging the 3F-3Lo more leniently, I think it will still be hard for Mao to get credit for the 3F-3Lo on a consistent basis.
-Having a consistent 3F-3T would give her another option for the SP, and it significantly increases Mao’s options for the LP.

5) Work on the 3A from brackets and potentially use it as the solo triple in the SP
-I know Mao has mentioned that she might put the 3A in the SP. I think if she chooses to do so, she should try for the 3A from steps as the solo triple. If she nails that, I think it would easily earn her 10+ points for that single element. And more importantly, I think it will give her the extra “wow” factor to push her SP program ahead of Yu-Na’s or Miki’s. Her 3Lz probably will not be as big as either of theirs, and her 3F-3Lo does not look as impressive as Yu-Na’s 3F-3T or Miki’s 3Lz-3Lo. (Of course her 2A is the best, though.) And can you just imagine the other skaters’ and the judges’ reaction? Even if she doesn’t actually do it in the program, if she pulled a 3A from steps in the warm-up? Well I think some people would go

6) Consider getting the 2A-3T consistent
-If the 3F-3Lo and 3F-3T are inconsistent, then Mao might want to try working on this.

7) Use music that Mao likes and that accentuates her beautiful, ballet-like style but is not too soft/peaceful.
-As I said in other threads, I agree that Mao’s greatest weapon is beauty – her gracefulness, flexibility, and ballet-like style. (In fact, even some Korean bloggers said the same thing, according to this Japanese article. I won’t say much about music choice since there are other threads on this topic, but I think something along the lines of her “Fantasy for Violin and Orchestra” SP from 2007-08 season would be great – because it was gorgeous, and because the music was poignant, so it had impact and wasn’t too soft/peaceful.

8 ) Focus on the program on a whole, and not just the individual elements
-The comment by the JSF’s Yoshioka about programs needing to work from a “whole program” perspective – I completely agreed with that. It might just be me, but my impression is that Mao focuses on her individual elements a lot, and sometimes forgets about the performance in between them. She needs to work on the overall effect of her program.

9) Consider going back to her old practice regime
After Worlds, I was wondering if the Russian-style practices – short but intense, were not working for Mao, who likes to practice, practice, practice. This is what happened at Trophee Eric Bompard: she didn’t feel prepared, so she did poorly, and then before NHK Trophy, she went back to her old practice style. At some point after that, though, I think she tried to change to the Russian style.

I am thinking though, that this might be working for her when there’s no pressure—her practices go fine, she is able to accomplish everything that she wanted—but when the competitions come, she gets nervous and suddenly thinks, “Uh-oh, I haven’t practiced as much as I did last year,” and starts losing confidence.

If there’s one thing we know about Mao, it’s that she is addicted to practice, and has been that way since she was a child. I’m not sure if you can change that over the course of one season, so maybe for the Olympic season, it might be better to go back to her old routine? At least close to the Olympics?

This one suggestion I’m not too sure about though…what do you guys think? And what do you think about the other suggestions?

Here are some potential jump layouts for Mao’s LP

Note that the orders of the jumps within first half/second half can be changed, as long as they stay in their respective halves.
(For reference, Yu-Na’s jump layout is worth 45.45. Miki’s jump layout at Worlds was worth 43.15, but her maxed-out program with 3Lz-3Lo and 4S would be worth 52.65.)

1) I think this was Mao’s ideal jump layout (the goal) – with two 3A’s and two 3-3s:

3A+2T 9.5
3A 8.2
3F+3T 9.5

3S 4.95
3F+3Lo 11.55
3Lz 6.6
2A 3.85

TOTAL 54.15


2)But it seems that 3S is not consistent for Mao (in fact, many skaters seem to pop it under pressure) and it’s not worth very much, so unless the ISU institutes the 5-triple bonus rule, she might want to leave it out. In that case, she could use these two jump layouts:

3A+2T 9.5
3A 8.2
3Lz 6

3F-3Lo 11.55
3T 4.4
3F-2Lo-2Lo9.35
2A 3.85

TOTAL 52.85


3)Or, this might be even easier for her (easier to get credit for 3F-3T than 3F-3Lo, and her single 3Lo is gorgeous), and it has the same base value:

3A+2T 9.5
3A 8.2
3Lz 6

3F-3T 10.45
3Lo 5.5
3F-2Lo-2Lo9.35
2A 3.85

TOTAL 52.85

If she gets the 3Lz to be solid, she could even swap it into the second half of her program (instead of a 3T or 3Lo), to gain a slightly bigger bonus.


4) Another option for Mao would be to do something like her 07-08 program, and only do one 3A:

3A 8.2
3F-3T 9.5
3Lz 6

3Lo 5.5
3F-3Lo 11.55
2A-2Lo-2Lo7.15
2A 3.85

TOTAL 51.75


5) If she thinks that the 3F-3Lo is too risky, then I think she should try for a 2A-3T:

3A 8.2
3F+3T 9.5
3Lz 6

2A-3T 8.25
3Lo 5.5
3F-2Lo-2Lo9.35
2A 3.85

TOTAL 50.65


6) Finally, in the event that Mao finds the 3Lz too inconsistent, and if she wants to leave out both the 3Lz and 3S, then I think she could do something like this:

3A+2T 9.5
3A 8.2
3F 5.5

2A-3T 8.25
3Lo 5.5
3F-2Lo-2Lo9.35
2A 3.85

TOTAL 50.15

She could also do a 3F-2Lo and 3T, but that’s slightly lower in value.

**************
Wow, I guess Mao has a lot of options!

Phew, I'm sorry for the very long post!

Can't wait to hear what you guys think!

Batsuchan wrote:

2) Increase speed in spirals and spins, and be sure to get level 4s
-Watching the skaters live, I could see firsthand that Mao’s spirals are considerably slower than the other skaters (even though her positions are gorgeous). She barely covers the ice, while Yu-Na and others make full laps of the rink. I did not notice her being slow in the spins as much, but MissAero and tianrushui told me they looked slow, and I agreed that it didn’t seem that Mao got as many rotations in as she usually does. She should definitely work on these things; I think they are easily within her reach.
-As for getting level 4s – Mao definitely needs to do this. I think she’s perfectly capable of it, and there’s no reason to be giving up easy points.

3) Nail the 3Lz
-I was going through potential jump layouts for Mao’s LP (which I talk about more below), and it became clear to me that nailing the 3Lz is absolutely necessary for Mao to keep the base value edge over Yu-Na and Miki. Since Mao’s 3S is still inconsistent, and it doesn’t look like the ISU will institute the 5-triple bonus rule next year, I think she should focus on getting the 3Lz perfect. Without the 3Lz or 3S, Mao can only do 6 triples, max.

It is a long post. But I enjoyed reading it.

I don't think I need add anything more to your first point. ITA.

Among all the other issues, spins and spirals are the elements Mao need to work on. They are arguably the easiest elements that Mao could improve on and close the gap between her and other competitors. I hope she will loose the hand-assisted spiral, because I think it's slowing her down. Loved what she did with her spirals in the Nocturne performance. I'm pretty sure that she covered more distance than she did now. One of the things I love about Mao's skating is the sense of freedom in her skate. The "born-free" spirit makes you feel that this girl is destined to be a star on the ice. Skating with her hands free when doing the spiral + good speed = Wonderful sense of freedom and elegance. I would rather her focus on improving her edges (when she change from inside edge to outside edge) and speed on the ice rather than getting the best stretch.

Lutz, what more can I say. She needs it in the FS AND the SP.

3A: don't think she will put in two in her FS program next year. Perhaps one in SP but not two in FS, unless her other triples have become very unstable again and she really really needs it to win. It was TAT's idea to put in 2 this year to challenge Mao anyway. Considering that Mao has only landed two back to back this season in competitions, the success rate is too low for her to take the risk in the Olympic year.

Triple/triples: Mao definitely needs two in the FS with or without her 2 3As. So, yes, she needs to either stabilize her 3F-3L or start finding another combo to substitute it. This will mean 3F-3T. She probably feels more comfortable to do 3F-3T than 2A-3T because of what happened at 2007 worlds. If she goes for 3T, she needs to fight her underrotation problem again too. Yu-na plans on adding a new triple/triple to her FS next season. So, Mao HAS to have them in order to be competitive. GREAT, now I'M feeling nervous and the new season has not even started yet.

Salchow: let's see whether Mao puts it into her program in the World Team Trophy competition.

Music choice: She needs what my friends in the choir call, " a champion's music" for her FS. In international choir competitions, people have always stressed on how important it is to choose the right songs for your own choice performance. Some songs may be beautiful to hear but are just not the kind of songs that will help you win; that will allow the choir the opportunity to showcase their strengths to their maximum potential. Mao's debussy is a very good example. Lovely melody but not memorable. There must be a clear introduction, change in music tone, allow the skater to build momentum and finally a magnificent climax - a good progression to mesmerize the audience. This sounds lame but it's an old trick that works every time. That is why skaters repeat similar song choices all the time - those songs are repeatedly used for a reason: most of them are a winner's song if skated to its full potential. Scheherazade is a typical example. I'm being very ambiguous here. I hope you guys understand what I mean. When I can find a better way to describe what I mean, I'll come back and edit my post.

Skaters will need the music to cheer them on when they are tired, to stir up their emotions in order to display good artistry. So yes, I agree again Mao must not only LIKE the music but LOVE it, just like Chopin last season.

Choreography: I think I posted my opinions on another thread. I'll repeat my main points here. Please let Mao retain her original sense of freedom in her skates. Let her skating FLOW across the ice. The footwork sequence to surge forward instead of back and forth on the ice - (I love her footwork sequence this season but the more I watch it, the more the back-and-forth twisting of her body erks me). Let TAT choreograph the SP and Lori the FS. Don't think it's a good idea to have TAT to do both. Lori has more experience with Mao on doing the FS; I feel that her programs for her suited her nature and skating habits more. Lori works TO Mao's strengths. In Mao's FS with Lori, Mao skates literally "freer" than in the one she did with TAT. TAT could focus more on coaching Mao instead.

I am very bad at analyzing jump layouts. I'll leave it to people who are more familiar to the COP system than I am. KUDOS to Batsuchan for coming up with so many versions!!

I really don't think it is wise to put a bracket into 3A in short program. It is too risky. Remember 06-07season, when mao did so in LP. She never cleaned the 3A,even the one in 07 world is slightly two-footed. Instead mao needs to make her triple lutz consistent and bring her confidence back. Her technique in triple lutz has no problem, all that matters is CONFIDENCE.
As to the LP, one 3A, 3F3L,3F3T would be a better choice for her.
And choose appropriate music.

Quote :

Let TAT choreograph the SP and Lori the FS. Don't think it's a good idea to have TAT to do both.

ITA, IMO, I think it's better for Mao to find a new coach. I don't know why most skater who went under tatiana seem not doing well at big competition. May be I'm wrong, but I just has a weird feeling about that. I'm a bit disappointed with the FS that she create for Mao this season as well. If I remember correctly, she mention that Mao is too mechanical at 2007 World, but the program that she create for Mao is just as the same at 2007 FS except the footwork. I know that Mao is capable of more than that. Look at her Exhibition. If that EX is Mao FS, I don't think yuna FS will that 68 for the PCS. If Mao decide to stay with Tatiana, they must make a lot of changes. For example, create new SP that is like her 08 SP or return to that 08 SP, make the new FS that is like Mao 09 Exhibition. If these change are not make, I don't think Mao going to win the Olympic since yuna scores are that inflated.

Anyway, I wish her the best and I look forward to see her new Olympic programs.

Ok, so based on TAT and Mao's comments, it looks like they will be going with the 3A-2T/3F/2A for the short program.

For the long program, if TAT says Mao will do the lutz, then this is what I predict:

1 3A+2T 9.5
2 3A 8.2
3 3F-2Lo-2Lo 8.5

4 3Lo 5.5
5 3F-3T 10.45
6 3Lz 6.6
7 2A 3.85
TOTAL 52.60

For comparison, I tried to come up with a maxed out program for Miki, but I'm not sure if she can actually pull this off:

1 3Lz+3Lo 11
2 4S 10.3
3 3F 5.5

4 3Lz 6.6
5 3T+2Lo+2Lo 7.7
6 2A+3T 8.25
7 2A 3.85
TOTAL 53.20

So it would be close, but Mao would no longer have the edge in base value...though I'm sure she can make it up in GOE/PCS/her other elements.

That's certainly a possibility, Batsuchan! However, although a lot of things could happen during these coming months, I don't think that Mao will work on a quad even if Miki is putting out a 3A or 4L/4S, unless there is a very compelling reason to. Besides, I think she has her hands pretty full for the time being. Her triple-triples and salchow are in need of greater attention. I would think.

I hope that Mao could also work on her transitions between elements in her FS. That is the area where Joannie and Yuna clearly bested her at worlds. If we look closely to their footwork in between jumps and spins, their choreography is more intricate and moves with the music. I guess that is also why their programs look more polished. The choreography of Joannie's FS program is really well done - do take a look at her transitions between jump passes/spins, such as her footwork before going into a jump, or the movement of her head and arms. V. v. nice.

Ah... we seem to demand so much from Mao these days. After all, it's the Olympic season coming up. The best treat for me will be to see Mao skate with genuine joy on ice and be true to herself in the coming season.

I agree with you, snowdrops24, I would like to see more transitions in Mao's programs, or at least some more choreography - because that will give Mao a chance to rest a bit too.

I was kind of hoping that Mao would opt for a slightly less challenging free program, not in terms of the jumps, but in pacing. She really had no time to stop/catch her breath! (And I wonder if that contributed to *some* people's impression that her program was monotonous.)

If she takes something difficult, but not overwhelming, and is able to skate it so effortlessly, smoothly, and wonderfully like she did the 'Clair de Lune' SP - I think that would be ideal.

It does kind of seem that "Challenge & Evolution" Mao wants to do just that though - make her programs even harder!

Well, we shall see...

All I really want to see if for Mao to go out there full of confidence and skate her heart out!

Yep, snowdrops24, I totally agree it's all about seeing Mao's genuine joy on the ice!

Wow, judging from what TAT and Mao said in interviews during and after WTT, it seems that there is a very high possibility that we will be seeing Mao plan THREE 3As in the ladies competition: one 3A combo in SP; and two 3As in FS, one in combo.

Her 3A in the SP (WTT) is clean as a whistle, love the sound of the blade kicking off the ice - u know that it's gonna be a good jump when u see that kind of take off edge. Hopefully, Mao will be able to bring more 3As of that standard to her performances next season. Goooo, MAO!

If Mao do decide to go for 3 3As, it is even more essential for Mao to close the gap in PCS between she and Yuna. She must convince the judges that she too is a performer on ice, not just a great skater who could pull of great jumps, spins and steps. Or else if both Yuna and Mao lead in the SP (with Yuna leading Mao with a few marks) at olympics, and both skate clean (Mao winning the FS with a slight margin) in the FS, it is possible that the judges will decide who wins the OGM base on their level of presentation. At the moment, Yuna will win it hands down over Mao (in terms of artistic presentation).

Soooooo, I can't wait to see the new Mao emerging next season. I have a feeling that we may be in for a pleasant surprise. Mao may never be an actress on ice as Yuna, but she can surely be equally mesmerizing and astounding by being herself on the ice.


********************************

ETA: Curious about what was the difference btw Mao's SP performance in WTT and worlds, I went on to compare Mao's SP performances back to back without playing the music. I simply focused on how well she executed her elements. To my surprise, it wasn't really really wasn't THAT big of a difference. At least it wasn't as big as I originally thought it would be.

Her improvement was mainly in the finishing touches - the flow after she landed the 2A, the fluidity of her steps, the footwork and speed she went into her 3F, etc. In fact, Mao's last combination spin at worlds was better executed than the one she did in WTT. It was graded level 4 at worlds, but level 3 here at WTT - probably becuz she didn't spin fast enough and ran out of time to hold the last position long enough for the right amt of rotations.

Overall, she exuded more confidence in the WTT SP performance than at worlds. She skated with relatively more speed, though, still not very fast compared to other skaters like Miki and Rochette. Her speed increased after she landed her 3A combo, probably because landing the combo gave her a boost in confidence.

I am not the expert - so couldn't really tell the difference between her positions, rotations and change of edge in her spins at worlds and WTT. From the naked eye, however, Mao's first two spins at WTT really wasn't that much of a difference from the ones she did at worlds. However, Mao got level 4 for both of them.

Didn't really see a great difference between Mao's spirals at WTT and worlds either. I *think* she held her positions slightly longer at WTT...

My conclusion from Mao's SP marks in WTT, therefore, is a lesson learned on 1) how important it is to NOT double/pop a jump in the SP. If Mao didn't double her lutz at worlds, she would have been received 4/5 marks more for her SP - leading to slightly higher PCs too. Her marks at worlds (had she landed the 3Z) would had been in the 70s as well. 2) spin faster and get the right no. of rotations.

Mao has to find a way to ensure that she could land all of her jumps CLEAN in her SPs next season. If changing the 3-3 to 3A combo and 3Z to 3F could do the job, Mao will have to accept the lower base value and hope to make it up with her FS. Ofcourse, if she does get the 3-3s and 3Z stablize, that's another story.

She just have to train train train!

She already has it!

She also MUST choose a good music for this season...

ISU is a little too harsh... they prefer skater who play it safe and land clean jumps rather than skaters trying triple Axels...

and I really think her 3a is consistent now!

She also has to train her Lutz! and focus on more jumps...

in short... there's really not much to do... cause she HAS IT! ALREADY! she just have to fix and stabilize her jumps combined with good music!

I bet she's going to make a revenge next year!

Good topic.

I agree that she needs lighter music. Masquerade Waltz was a little heavy for her, her moves looked a little agressive to me, compared to Fantasie-Impromptu. Clair was wonderful though, I don't know why people made such a fuss. I think she could try something from Memoirs of a Geisha soundtrack, there's beautiful music in there, and they match her soft style.

As for the elements, I agree that she should drop the 3F-3Lo, and try a 3F-3T. She used to do that in the past. And I wonder why she has problems with the salchow, it's said to be one of the easiest jumps. And solve the flutz problem, 'cause I think it's still a trouble to her.

Her spiral positions are the best for me, but she indeed needs more speed, especially on the foward ones.

Is it really necessary to do a 2A in the FS? It's base value is low compared to others.

Well, I agree that she should try something like this:

SP

3A-2T + 3Lz + 2A

or, if she prefers

3A-2T + 3F + 2A

but what i would really like to see is

3F-3T + 3A + 2A (That would be something!!!)


FS

3A + 3A-2T + 3Lz + 3Lo + 3F-3T + 3F-2Lo-2Lo + 2A
not exactly in this order

And return the Biellmann spin on the FS. Her Biellmann is gorgeous.

I dream about the day when I'll see her doing a 3A-3T like Midori Ito, or a quad.

2A is a required element, so yes. And while it has a low base value, it's also the jump that gets easy +GoE in the process, making it worth as much as, if not more, than the easier triple jumps (3T, 3S) for some skaters. There's a reason why some skaters have 3 of them in their FS, which I'm personally not very fond of.

I think we can safely say Mao no longer flutzes - the issue has more to do with whether she can triple it and land it cleanly under pressure. Again, the off-season and the new programs will shape that decision so I'm not going to be saying too much on this issue.

I *personally* do not want Mao to drop her 3F-3Lo for the 3F-3T. Like she said in her post-WTT interview, she simply needs to make sure that her jumps won't be deemed as UR, and that's something her 3A has been dinged for at NHK and at the WTT as well, not just her combo. The rule changes bring a glimmer of hope in that regards as well. I would like to see some technical challenges still taking place in the sport, and there's very little women remaining who tack the 3loop as the second jump - it's as rare as the 4S in the men's event and I for one don't want to see it go.

clovera wrote:

I *personally* do not want Mao to drop her 3F-3Lo for the 3F-3T. Like she said in her post-WTT interview, she simply needs to make sure that her jumps won't be deemed as UR, and that's something her 3A has been dinged for at NHK and at the WTT as well, not just her combo. The rule changes bring a glimmer of hope in that regards as well. I would like to see some technical challenges still taking place in the sport, and there's very little women remaining who tack the 3loop as the second jump - it's as rare as the 4S in the men's event and I for one don't want to see it go.

I agree with you clovera, I love that Mao takes on the challenge of doing a combo with a 3Lo, AND I love Mao's 3F-3Lo - so pretty!

However, if she ends up worrying too much about the 3F-3Lo like she worried about the 3Lz, and it starts bringing down the quality of her entire program, then I think she should opt for what makes her comfortable. I think the WTT SP showed that confidence is key - if Mao can go out with 100% confidence, she can score in the stratosphere, even if the base value of her jumps is slightly lower.

Of course, ideally, I would want Mao to be totally confident with her 3F-3Lo, but perhaps that's just me being a selfish fan...

Ooooooo... I am all for Mao going for 3F-3L. It is, afterall, one of the trademarks of her programs. I looove how Mao springs up effortlessly for her 3L - not so much this season though, her 3L looks particularly laboured. It will be Mao's decision.

Mao's best 3F-3L this season was the one she did at GPF 2008. Although it got downgraded (questionably), but among all her competitions this season, her 3L was most rotated here. Personally, watching it under slow motion, I'd say that it's very much within the 1/4 range but anyway, the past is the past. I'll not dwell any longer on the subject.

In an interview, Mao seems to be open to any necessary changes to her technical elements. So, her jump layout is bound to change if she's adding the lutz. Plus, she wants to try new things too. So, I will be expecting new spins as well. I just really really hope that she will loose her hand-assisted spiral. Can't wait to see what she does with her programs!

Thanks. I didn't know 2A was required for the FS too.

I love her 3F-3Lo too. But next year is olympic season, and I guess she should play a little safer. If she succeeds and feels comfortable doing it, so do it. But if not, it would be better to try something less risky, at least in the olympic year. I think.

Besides most things that have already been mentioned here I think she should go for the lutz (and salchow if she's planning to include it in her FP next season) in her gala programs so she can get more comfortable landing it as a part of her program in front of the audience but without competitive pressure.

I think Mao should abandon 3F-3Lo altogether. She has failed this combo eleven straight times and the finally ratified case of worlds SP was kind of a rescue measure. Otherwise she could be out of the final flight. If it was "clean" like at GPF, I suspect it was downgraded as usual.

Before worlds, I've expected Mao would change the combo but that didn't happen. Maybe she cared less about winning than to disprove that she has lost the 3F-3Lo from her repertoirs. After proving this point, she could explorer another course.

As long as she sticks to the 3F-3Lo, she's always at mercy of tech panels and her rivals can breathe freely. Her best option is to choose 3A combo in the SP and to practice 3A-3T ostentatiously. When they sense the actual possibility of 3A-3T in the SP, immense pressure is set upon them.