Four Continents

aoi88 wrote:

Does anyone think that the judges tend to downgrade Mao's 3A because they look too effortless? Cause they usually look alright to me. Maybe the judges prefer more powerful looking 3As like Midori Ito's. I always feel that if Mao's 3A had more height, it will probably get ratifed every time she lands them. I am also hoping something magical happens at the Olympics (Mao landing 3 triple axels )!!

I understand what your talking about. Like her 2005 junior worlds axel..
it looked like a double... and most of the 3A`s Mao does really look effortless and seems like a 2a. Maybe.

I was shocked to see Mao in 3rd. And behind Amanda Dobbs?! I know I just watched her skate at nationals, but I can't remember her... I couldn't understand the time deduction thing untill I read a bunch of your posts. Geez , I didn't even know there was a deduction like that. I thought your music had to be a certain length, and you had to finish not too early, or too long after the music ended. I didn't know you actually had to be skating for a certain amount of time ! For a case as nit pickie as this, I bet skaters usually get away being one or two seconds off. I wonder if this is something the judges are going to start cracking down on now Or am I just uninformed on this issue, and this mistake really doesn't happen very often?

Oh, I just discoverd on my onscreen tv guide that Universal Sports WILL cover some of 4 continents. Not until Feb. 7th, but at least it's something

Star85 wrote:

I was shocked to see Mao in 3rd. And behind Amanda Dobbs?! I know I just watched her skate at nationals, but I can't remember her... I couldn't understand the time deduction thing untill I read a bunch of your posts. Geez , I didn't even know there was a deduction like that. I thought your music had to be a certain length, and you had to finish not too early, or too long after the music ended. I didn't know you actually had to be skating for a certain amount of time ! For a case as nit pickie as this, I bet skaters usually get away being one or two seconds off. I wonder if this is something the judges are going to start cracking down on now Or am I just uninformed on this issue, and this mistake really doesn't happen very often?

I agree. I didn't know the rules were that you had to be actually moving for a certain amount of time. Maybe because skaters never get called for this.

Well, occasionally, I'm sure, but I have to agree, that's just a little crazy. I wouldn't be surprised if Mao was only a fraction of a second off.
If they're going to start cracking down on this, I wonder if it could become the next major issue. I'm going to be tense tomorrow for the free program, since I won't be able to see it live. I always feel a little uneasy when Mao doesn't skate her best.
I know Mao has the power and capacity to overtake the competition in the LP, though. If she does well, I really believe she has this in the bag.

^ Actually, I can remember skaters getting called for going over the time limit before, but usually it's because they end a second or two late (a very obvious problem, as it also lessens the impact of the program when they don't end on the music). I can't recall specific cases off hand, but I know it has happened. I think it's more unusual to get this deduction by starting too soon, but most skaters have music that isn't too long so they don't have to wait a few seconds to start skating.

Ok, I finally got to watch Mao's SP. I feel a little embarrassed after I made all those comments about Mao being strong when things are going bad...

She looked REALLY nervous before she started her SP. To me, with prior knowledge that it got downgraded, it did look a little tight--not like the one she zinged! at WTT.

I was shocked to see Mao pop the 3F. She did pop it in practice, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that she popped it today, but, when has Mao ever done that? I know that Mao has been working on fixing her 3F, but I can't remember her ever popping the flip in competition...

The spiral sequence was absolutely gorgeous, and the spins were very clean too. Beautiful skating as usual, but I felt like her heart wasn't in it the way it was at Nats...

This morning I was horribly depressed by this result, but I've calmed down a bit.

I'm sure Mao will never, ever use this as an excuse, but I wonder if TAT not being there, and the whole situation with the Korean fans/bodyguards is really bothering her? When she said she was disappointed that TAT couldn't come--I think that's the first time she's ever hinted at being disappointed/the closest she's ever come to a complaint. Like at 4CC last year, she was totally like, "TAT not being here had no influence." I guess Mao was really caught off-guard by this. And she must be very worried about TAT's health.

I feel very puzzled by the whole situation--not sure what's going on in Mao's head. So I have no predictions for the long program. It might be possible for her to stage a major comeback, but the fact that she's popping the 3F really has me worried. BUT, as Mao herself said, "It's a competition that doesn't mean anything."

☆Genie wrote:

Let's see what happens at the Olympics. I think something magical will happen.

I do agree with this! I finally watched the US Nats exhibition program, and they brought out all the former US Olympic champions. And when I saw Tara Lipinski and Sarah Hughes, I remembered, they won because they had performances of a lifetime, not because they were the favorites going in. And Mao, let's not forget, is MIRACLE MAO!

aoi88 wrote:

Does anyone think that the judges tend to downgrade Mao's 3A because they look too effortless? Cause they usually look alright to me. Maybe the judges prefer more powerful looking 3As like Midori Ito's. I always feel that if Mao's 3A had more height, it will probably get ratifed every time she lands them. I am also hoping something magical happens at the Olympics (Mao landing 3 triple axels )!!

or at least she should get pos goe for her 3a, only because is not huge, and definitly is not small, is not low quality, at contratry, is perfect and beautiful, let alone she is the only woman doing it right now, still Midori and Tonya didnt it all the time like Mao, less in comb, may be the judges are used be to see her doing it that they think is very easy look at her 2a, I think is the most easy jump for her, until the last season it looked average, but like the Mao team thought that she needed a huge jump for the pos goes, I am not complaint about that, I love her 2a, but is not fair that just because is too much easy for her and looks so effortless, they dont apraise it, now she almost overrota this jump. and please someone tell me how Yuna got 1.2 goes for her 2a in lp TEB and Mao only 0.8 for her 2a in Cup of russia?, Yuna kind to blink before and after the jump , Mao did it after a reverse spread eagle, and after other pose, no wonder why she quite the spread eagle , she thought for what?

and what a &^$$ this last dg , if I understand well, 1/4ur its ok, is not?, not just here, I dont understand her dg in TEB 3lo and 3f 2lo 2lo, and Rostelecom 3f 2lo, ok she prerrote 1/2 turn like everyone in the loop, even Yuna, and the landing is not ur more than 1/4, I know she could improve her landings but if 1/4 is allowed why dg, they can dont give her pos goes, but dg is too much.

and her spiral, why she never get level 4?, someone in golden skate told me is because she doesnt hold the positions, fine, but is not 3sec the time requerided?, she hold her positions 3 or more seconds, but I dont find nothing about levels, may be is some with the edge changes, that looks perfect to me but I dont know. anyway, I love her spirals, in this competitions specially were wonderful , and there are originals, something very strange now a day, I am bother of all the same spirals for the other girls, and with their horribles positions the most of them .

and now, this stupid time deduction, I had not been very well in math may be I am wrong, but in the video (first link posted) she start in 41sec and finish at 3:31, 170min or 2min50sec, please someone check it, she got time deduction in cup of russia, and was 1sec after the time, but this one is ridiculous .

my conclusion is: the judges are very hard with her first because she has a long history of dg, then doesnt matter how she jump, they will dg her jumps and second, because she doesnt complaint in public like others people, and there are not articles and videos about all this questionables dg, etc.

oh, and the japanesse deferation must ask return the money of their supposed dials with the ISU because obviously they are not doing any favor to their skater, at least not to Mao.

sorry is very long and very bad english but I needed to say it, I am sick of all this stupid judged

I feel Mao is so not herself this season. I know nationals was an exception but I just feel Mao really needs more support when she goes to compete abroad. I know TAT is a nice lady and all, but she's just not the right person for Mao, because she cannot always be there when Mao needs her the most. When she was with Arutanian, I feel she was in such good shape and in kiss and cry section, he was always so supportive of her. I really hope Mao can get a coach that can give her all the support and who is an expert with jumps. (Midori Ito ? )

As what Dave Lease posted on his twitter 12 hrs ago:
It is such bullshit that Evan gets credit for his triple axels yet Mao Asada does not.

Seems like a quite a number are also questioning the 1pt time deduction.

aoi88 wrote:

When she was with Arutanian, I feel she was in such good shape and in kiss and cry section, he was always so supportive of her.

Interesting! Rewatching some of her old performances, I have a different opinion--he might have been very supportive, but Mao never looked 100% comfortable around him the way she looked around Coach Machiko and TAT. With Machiko-sensei and TAT, Mao seems to really enjoy being hugged by them; she really seems to LOVE them...I never got that feeling with her and Artunian though...but that's just me.

Batsuchan wrote:

aoi88 wrote:

When she was with Arutanian, I feel she was in such good shape and in kiss and cry section, he was always so supportive of her.

Interesting! Rewatching some of her old performances, I have a different opinion--he might have been very supportive, but Mao never looked 100% comfortable around him the way she looked around Coach Machiko and TAT. With Machiko-sensei and TAT, Mao seems to really enjoy being hugged by them; she really seems to LOVE them...I never got that feeling with her and Artunian though...but that's just me.

Interesting.... Maybe it's cause Mao may be shy with foreign men? Well my dream coach for Mao is Midori Ito (she should coach), because it's her idol, she speaks the same language, and they both love triple axels. It's so perfect

I still doubt about the 1 pt deduction! ><

aoi88 wrote:

I feel Mao is so not herself this season. I know nationals was an exception but I just feel Mao really needs more support when she goes to compete abroad. I know TAT is a nice lady and all, but she's just not the right person for Mao, because she cannot always be there when Mao needs her the most. When she was with Arutanian, I feel she was in such good shape and in kiss and cry section, he was always so supportive of her. I really hope Mao can get a coach that can give her all the support and who is an expert with jumps. (Midori Ito ? )

Well, since Mao decided to use Chukyo ice rink for training, it's not so easy to find a coach who can always stay with her. and Arutunian had his skaters at Lake Arrowhead so he couldn't go every competitions Mao attended either. I remember many skating fans were confused that he wasn't fixing Mao's lutz. I think Mao seems pretty happy to be with her coach in K&C when TAT is there.
I don't know how Midori is able to coach another skater, but I think Yuka could be a good coach too.

coconut wrote:

aoi88 wrote:

I feel Mao is so not herself this season. I know nationals was an exception but I just feel Mao really needs more support when she goes to compete abroad. I know TAT is a nice lady and all, but she's just not the right person for Mao, because she cannot always be there when Mao needs her the most. When she was with Arutanian, I feel she was in such good shape and in kiss and cry section, he was always so supportive of her. I really hope Mao can get a coach that can give her all the support and who is an expert with jumps. (Midori Ito ? )

Well, since Mao decided to use Chukyo ice rink to training, it's not so easy to find a coach who can always stay with her. and Arutunian had his skaters at Lake Arrowhead so he couldn't go every competitions Mao attended either. I remember many skating fans were confused that he wasn't fixing Mao's lutz. I think Mao seems pretty happy to be with her coach in K&C when TAT is there.
I don't know how Midori is able to coach another skater, but I think Yuka could be a good coach too.

But Yuka doesn't live in Japan does she? Anyways, the reason why I think Midori is good is because her 3As are so explosive that the judges just cannot ignore them. In my opinion, the aspects we love about Mao's 3A, effortlessness and elegance, may actually prove disadvantageous for her. As someone else mentioned, Lysaeck can get his 3A which I am guessing is not that great ratified but Mao couldn't suggest that there is a double standard. The judges expect that men can do 3A, but for women, they really need to show it in a way the judges cannot deny. Yes, I am suggesting the judges are in self-denial about Mao's 3A; they just can't believe it can be that effortless . That's why I believe if Mao's jumps get to be explosive as Midori's, then she will get them ratified more often.

Like coconut, I was wondering how Yuka would do as Mao's coach. aoi88 is right that Yuka doesn't live in Japan, and it seems Mao really wants to live in Japan...but I think the fact that she could talk to Mao in Japanese might make Mao consider it...if she could help Jeremy Abbott get his head together, then maybe she can help Mao too.

But, sometimes I wonder if Mao would go back to Machiko-sensei. It seems they still maintain a bit of a coach-student relationship and see each other everyday... Monna-sensei, who helps Miki with her jumps, might be able to help Mao too... I'm not sure how much Midori Ito can help Mao with her 3A because they are so different as jumpers--Mao has never been a power jumper like Midori. But I do love Mao's beautiful, effortless 3A's. I still remember Peggy Fleming at 2008 Worlds saying 'she does the most beautiful triple axel.'

I suggested Yuka because I don't think Mao's coach needs to live in Japan. Mao can go to U.S. sometime and come back to Japan just like the way Miki does now with her coach. I like the fact that Yuka already knows how to coach and she can choreograph too. I know it's Mao's decision after all. I would love to see Midori and Mao together in K&C but I just think jumping by herself and coaching another is a different issue.

Mao and Shanetta looked understandably upset at Mao's score in K&C. 1 point deduction for the length of the skate - surely, the weirdest part of the COP I've heard of so far. And this is the first time I've heard of it. Of course, you would expect skaters who clearly do not start or finish with the music to be penalized, but honestly, a one or two second difference? Pretty soon, only maths geniuses can become figure-skaters!

Mao seems to have so much going on right now. TAT's absence, security issues - I applaud Mao's composure in the face of all this. And I like how Mao did this tiny 'oh well' blink when she finished her program and seemed to be quite calm about the whole thing. Don't worry, Mao-chan. This competition is just yet another one of your countless practices before the Olympics. I truly believe the Vancouver Olympics is where you will really shine!

And anyway, she shined aplenty as it was in this program. Yes, the jumps were problematic and I know that the jumps are the real point-getters for a program, but from a purely aesthetic perspective, beautiful program, as usual!

Good luck for the FS, Mao!

before, I thought Tat was the worst coach for Mao , but now I dont know, Mao has improved a lot in all non jumps elements .
watching us nats, people said that were few or none skaters that like it to people without jumps but Sasha, but I believe Mao is like this, remember her sp in TEB and GPF 07?, I cant watch it, is so boring , now all her skating is above the average, if not for her funeral look when she miss a jump or she has a bad day , would be great, the best of her sp at nats was her look so happy and relax but she is very transparent I guess. may be a theater class can help her , I mean, we all have bad and good days, but her skating cant to depend of it. I dont know if the improve is because of Tat, natural improve of the time, practice, grown up, whatever, but if is because of Tat, then Mao should stay with her like consultant coach(Tat said she was her consultant coach) , and change to Shanetta for a technical coach, but I dont know who is a good technical coach in japan , I only know Machiko (flutz students) and Sato(Yukari wrap leg and inconsistent Taka)

Hello! I've been reading this board for a while now, and have been a Mao fan for a couple of years. I'm SO frustrated with the DG and scoring in general for Mao recently! Is it just me or is she constantly getting the strictest interpretation of this new stupid system? Is it politics? Is someone actively not wanting her to score well lately?

What possible good does the application of the time rule in this particular SP (at 4cc) do for the sport? That people will be afraid to move, start counting fractions of seconds? She finished with the music, and started to the beat "with the naked ear", as she always has - it all makes for a complete, mistake-less artistic impression. Math should not be applied here! WTH.... it's really frustrating to see great talents like her stifled by this new system. Interestingly, Mishin was saying that the COP stifled Lambiel, but recently he's been scoring well doing what he does best, for instance spins without change of direction. Why is it that she isn't given the benefit for attempting a more difficult move like 3A, that no one else is doing?
According to TAT, this is a big flaw with the COP - that it doesn't take into account the amount of mental and physical energy that is required to even attempt the 3A - it doesn't REWARD it enough, compared to other jumps- even if downgraded...

I am really mad! Something is going on here, and it is more than just Mao having a bad season and a strange coaching situation.
Does anyone know what the Japanese Figure Skating Association thinks about all this? Are they actively 'politicking' for Mao? Are they paying TAT? At this point, they should pay by the hour. If TAT can't be there for Mao and is only a consultant, Mao needs someone who CAN be there!

ugggggg!
-frustrated fan

I think Mao should learn from Plushy,he's so confident. Even when he makes mistakes. He may struggle in practices but in competition he always has this strong spirit. And on the other side is Brian, who is brilliant at practices but at competition he's so nervous Can Plushy be a coach of Mao for the next season?

polosatik wrote:

I think Mao should learn from Plushy,he's so confident. Even when he makes mistakes. He may struggle in practices but in competition he always has this strong spirit. And on the other side is Brian, who is brilliant at practices but at competition he's so nervous Can Plushy be a coach of Mao for the next season?

I agree that Mao definitely can learn from Plushy in his "I am going to show you how good I am" attitude. Mao is too nice and humble sometimes and this just makes it easier for naysayers to criticize her. She should go out with an attack and silence them once and for all!

On another note, I am curious why Mao doesn't do her 3F-3T anymore (she seems to have no problem with her 2T, so I think she can get the height for her 3T and not risk downgrade as much as a loop).

aoi88 wrote:

polosatik wrote:

I think Mao should learn from Plushy,he's so confident. Even when he makes mistakes. He may struggle in practices but in competition he always has this strong spirit. And on the other side is Brian, who is brilliant at practices but at competition he's so nervous Can Plushy be a coach of Mao for the next season?

I agree that Mao definitely can learn from Plushy in his "I am going to show you how good I am" attitude. Mao is too nice and humble sometimes and this just makes it easier for naysayers to criticize her. She should go out with an attack and silence them once and for all!

On another note, I am curious why Mao doesn't do her 3F-3T anymore (she seems to have no problem with her 2T, so I think she can get the height for her 3T and not risk downgrade as much as a loop).

I have no clue why she's not doing it in her FS but for the short it's all clear for me. Mao has problems with her lutz. So if she do 3f-3t her second jump should be 3axel. But I think that Mao is smarter then we and she has her own reasons why she does her current layout.

Welcome to this forum, Artistry!

I don't know how JSF's thinking, but in Japan, there is an aesthetics of not to complain or excuse, just like Mao..
This is based on Samurai spirits. I'm proud of this, but sometimes feel irritated
About TAT, she is absent because of illness. But Shanetta is there, so I think it doesn't affect Mao.

polosatik wrote:

But I think that Mao is smarter then we and she has her own reasons why she does her current layout.

Anyone watching Men's SP?
Reynolds did great job and finally gets rewarded for his quad! Wow!! He is leading now!


Some Mao photos from today's practice.
http://app.yonhapnews.co.kr/yna/basic/article/Search/YIBW_showSearchPhotoList.aspx?searchpart=photo&searchtext=%uc544%uc0ac%ub2e4&PAGINGTOTALCOUNT=710&PAGINGCURRENTPAGE=1&PAGINGPAGESIZE=20

I think Akiko changed her FP costume!
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20100128-00000067-jijp-spo.view-000
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20100128-00000065-jijp-spo.view-000


and welcome, Artistry.

coconut wrote:

Anyone watching Men's SP?
Reynolds did great job and finally gets rewarded for his quad! Wow!! He is leading now!


Some Mao photos from today's practice.
http://app.yonhapnews.co.kr/yna/basic/article/Search/YIBW_showSearchPhotoList.aspx?searchpart=photo&searchtext=%uc544%uc0ac%ub2e4&PAGINGTOTALCOUNT=710&PAGINGCURRENTPAGE=1&PAGINGPAGESIZE=20

I think Akiko changed her FP costume!
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20100128-00000067-jijp-spo.view-000
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20100128-00000065-jijp-spo.view-000


and welcome, Artistry.

Thanks for the photos . Maybe Mao should try 3Lo-3lo in future. I saw it in practice once, but not in competition. I respect Mao's decision to keep 3As but I think the judges really liked her programs where she did a triple-triple combo and a 3A, so I hope Mao can bring back a 3-3 combo in future(also they looked really pretty to me ).

http://hochi.yomiuri.co.jp/sports/winter/news/20100128-OHT1T00233.htm
http://sankei.jp.msn.com/sports/other/100128/oth1001281929016-n1.htm
http://sankei.jp.msn.com/sports/other/100128/oth1001281929016-n2.htm
http://vancouver2010.nikkansports.com/figure/news/p-sp-tp0-20100128-589989.html