Thophy Eric Bompard 2010

illani wrote:

Well, I was glad to see Mao fighting for this program. I'm glad she went for the triples instead of just popping them, and it was great to see her land the 3lo-2lo combo. It was unfortunate that she got behind with the music, causing her to rush the combo spin and parts of the step sequence (I really missed the cool hand change on the catch-foot twizzle at the end).

I have to say, I find the rules on the spins to be quite irksome. Having to hold a certain number of rotations to get levels and all that...bleh. The spins should be judged on qualities like speed, centering, and positioning, not a specific number of rotations. It turns into a counting game instead of artistry.

I am glad she went through with this, though, because it's obvious that competitions are different than practice, and she needs the experience. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but I feel it will be worth it in the end.

You know what, though? Even though this is still not Mao at her best, I still find her to be by far the most entertaining of the ladies this season. She captivates me, even with the mistakes. There is no one who can touch her artistically—she is on her own level.

I totally agree with you.

Sometimes I see very, very slow spins, looks as if they are going to stop, but they get level 4. It's not fun to see those spins. I enjoy watching spins with gorgeous positions, centering and speed -- changing speed, very fast to slow in accordance with the music. I think judging job is easier with quantitative rules, but this rule is not working for figure skating funs. They shouldn't forget their customers.

aoi88 wrote:

dangerous_angel_face wrote:

I went to TEB and saw Mao live for the second time. (the last time was last year's TEB)

Maybe it was my imagination, but seeing her live, I got the impression that she had more speed than last year.
Call me crazy, but I'm actually not THAT worried about Mao. Sure she made mistakes with the jumps that unfortunately caused her to fall behind the music, but she went from popping the flip at NHK to jumping one with what seemed like pretty good technique to me (even though she fell). It takes more than a few months to correct a jump and be comfortable enough to land it at a competition. You can't progress without struggling.
But I have to say, I'm not a big fan of Mao's SP dress. I thing something sleeveless would be better for the tango.

Thanks for your live report. It's always good to get a live impression of a skater's performance. From the video, I thought she appeared to skate a bit cautiously but perhaps that was in comparison to the practice clips, where it was really clear she was skating with much more speed. I agree about the dress. I also wish Mao wore a red dress for her Tango.
From the clips Danichan, it was clear that Mao hesitated a bit in landing that flip. In the practice clip, she did not hesitate at all and landed it beautifully. I think the hardest part of relearning technique is the getting used to part. For her to do them consistently in competitions, they have to become second nature to her.

I'm glad to hear that Mao was fast. Same as Aoi, I thought Mao wans't fast. But if she wasn't slow, it's OK and I hope she will gain her real speed in competition too.

I think it's all coming from nervousness. She was slower than her practice and her body movement was not as crisp as supposed to be.

She definitely needs to become MU. I think Mao became MU at the World 2008 where she had disastrous 3A fall. After that fall, she's totally different, even far better than her usual. I think it due to the power of MU, your body moves automatically as you have practiced many time because you think nothing, nothing at all.

Well, the situation is different now. Mao was very good back in 2008 both at practice and competition. So, I shouldn't expect too much. But, as she said in an interview that she would be able to get out of a tunnel, if she land 3A and perform a good SP, I think she's pursuing to make a breakthrough. It wasn't TEB SP unfortunately, but it may be TEB LP or nationals. Anyway, she has to deal with her nervousness to succeed in her new journey. I hope she will become MU at LP and keep all anxiety and negative thoughts away from her.

It's obvious that Mao can't do well in competitions right now. She still has a lot of nerves and when she becomes tense, her muscle memory acts up and overtakes her system. Still, her SP and practice clips gives me a lot of hope and she certainly DIDN'T disappoint me. We all discussed that rebuilding jumps are serious business, not to mention the fact that it takes YEARS, something that people just don't understand. There's also a lot of hype and expectation around her so they are all factors that probably contribute to her performance in competitions. I can understand why people feel concerned since this Mao is not the Mao that we know. But she's getting there eventually and really, she is a GENIUS for improving so rapidly even when she's participating in a competition. There's no sign of her wanting to take the easy road and as her fans, we should expect a bumpy ride.

So yeah, I don't know about you guys but I am happy with what I am seeing. There's more aggressiveness, more fire and more flow. She's definitely not there yet, but we've already established the fact that she's gonna have to throw a few competitions away. What I am worried about is her reputation though. The PCS scores aren't a good sign.

"Getting out of a tunnel" or "making a breakthrough" does not mean that Mao comes back to real Mao all the sudden. It's just a step forward to a next stage in her entire long-term endeavor.

It seems that Sato Sensei doesn't like drastic changes. He prefers tweaking approach. So when Mao starts landing all her jumps at competitions with the speed that Sato Sensei has been teaching, I think Sato Sensei will give further advice to improve the quality.

(I've heard that he chose not to change Yukari's leg lap, because when he tried to correct it, Yukari lost jumps and he though it'd be better to keep leg lap than messing up her jumps.)

Anyway, Mao needs to land jumps at competitions, by nationals if she wants to make a Worlds team. I somehow feel she'll make it at TEB LP. If not, it's OK, she will try it at nationals. She's learning from trial and error. It may not be an appropriate approach in term of PCS though, it's Mao who has chosen this way.

I was so shock and panic at NHK. But this time I'm ready to accept anything, just wishing she'll be able to do as good as her practices.

Go Mao !!!

illani wrote:

Well, I was glad to see Mao fighting for this program. I'm glad she went for the triples instead of just popping them, and it was great to see her land the 3lo-2lo combo. It was unfortunate that she got behind with the music, causing her to rush the combo spin and parts of the step sequence (I really missed the cool hand change on the catch-foot twizzle at the end).

I have to say, I find the rules on the spins to be quite irksome. Having to hold a certain number of rotations to get levels and all that...bleh. The spins should be judged on qualities like speed, centering, and positioning, not a specific number of rotations. It turns into a counting game instead of artistry.

I am glad she went through with this, though, because it's obvious that competitions are different than practice, and she needs the experience. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but I feel it will be worth it in the end.

You know what, though? Even though this is still not Mao at her best, I still find her to be by far the most entertaining of the ladies this season. She captivates me, even with the mistakes. There is no one who can touch her artistically—she is on her own level.

Yes I feel the exact same way about the spins! Someone needs to complain about those rules! Mao has far better flexibility than the rest of the figure skaters! (I won't mention who, but you all know who they are.) Figure skating isn't just about jumping and jumping and jumping. By far, Mao beats other girls with the rest of the elements! I think someone should speak up.

linglang wrote:

illani wrote:

Well, I was glad to see Mao fighting for this program. I'm glad she went for the triples instead of just popping them, and it was great to see her land the 3lo-2lo combo. It was unfortunate that she got behind with the music, causing her to rush the combo spin and parts of the step sequence (I really missed the cool hand change on the catch-foot twizzle at the end).

I have to say, I find the rules on the spins to be quite irksome. Having to hold a certain number of rotations to get levels and all that...bleh. The spins should be judged on qualities like speed, centering, and positioning, not a specific number of rotations. It turns into a counting game instead of artistry.

I am glad she went through with this, though, because it's obvious that competitions are different than practice, and she needs the experience. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but I feel it will be worth it in the end.

You know what, though? Even though this is still not Mao at her best, I still find her to be by far the most entertaining of the ladies this season. She captivates me, even with the mistakes. There is no one who can touch her artistically—she is on her own level.

I totally agree with you.

Sometimes I see very, very slow spins, looks as if they are going to stop, but they get level 4. It's not fun to see those spins. I enjoy watching spins with gorgeous positions, centering and speed -- changing speed, very fast to slow in accordance with the music. I think judging job is easier with quantitative rules, but this rule is not working for figure skating funs. They shouldn't forget their customers.

I am soooooo relieved there were others who felt this way about the spins this season!
In both ladies and mens, I've found most of the spins so awkward and aesthetically unpleasant this season.
I don't know exactly how many times you have to spin per position this season, but it seems like many of the skaters keep spinning on and on in the same position until they completely loose their speed. It makes them look like bad slow spinners when they're actually not. And the more powerful, speedy and energetic the other parts of the pro is, those spins are ruining everything. At least we know that it's all because of the rule change, but those who don't know would think that the skater is no good spinning like that. My husband saw Dai and Nobu perform, and he was enjoying both their skating, but when they started to spin, he said 'Wow, they're so slow! What's wrong with them? They weren't like this before...'.

I think that although FS is a sport, it's obviously a special kind of sport in which the pros are created for the viewers to appreciate. In most other sports, you necessarily do not need viewers. There'll always be a winner in a marathon, or a soccer game, and some guy who lifted the most in weight-lifting even with nobody watching. But for sports like FS and rhythmic sportive gymnastics, somebody has to watch to have a winner. So we have judges. But the judges do not only score technique which most ordinary viewers cannot make out if it's good or bad. They also judge the beauty and the artistry. Basically anybody can judge what's beautiful and artistic or not, because any evaluation on these aspects can only be based on subjectivism. The judges are supposed to score beauty and artistry, according to what most people would feel beautiful and artistic. They are representing the audience in that sense, even though their judgements differ from ours at times.

So, I think of FS as a kind of 'performing sports'. We actually call what the skaters are doing as 'performances', and the presance of viewers are already included in the word 'perform' (philosophically speaking). So why make the skaters compete according to rules which makes their performances aesthetically unpleasing for the viewers? As somebody mentioned before, I do not think men doing doughnut like spins are beautiful either. The removal of long spirals from ladies' is something I do not like as well. Long spirals were simply beautiful. If you look back on all the photos of female skaters performing up till last season, you'd notice that the most beautiful shots of them were taken when they were doing their spirals. But they got rid of that and added some stupid protocols to the spins. And I'm sure guys doing doughnut spins do not make a good photo!

What is it with the ISU people? Are they stupid or what?

Yes, ISU people are really stupid Pochipota. Well, look at all the mess they have made with rules and the empty audience.
We can make a good ISU team with all the people from this forum!

I like Kiira but come one 61 ????

Actually, to be honest, I am not sure if the MU idea works well with Mao. My understanding of MU is that it means embodying a sense of nothingness and doing nothing. I am not sure that mental state would affect one's connection with music and display of passion. But that's just my personal opinion; only Mao knows what best suits her.

Nonetheless, Mao is the kind of person who succeeds whatever she does. She is just that kind of person. She is so conscious of her own learning and always aims to improve and progress. Therefore, like many of you have said, I am sure she will succeed if we give her more time.

klarification wrote:

It's obvious that Mao can't do well in competitions right now. She still has a lot of nerves and when she becomes tense, her muscle memory acts up and overtakes her system. Still, her SP and practice clips gives me a lot of hope and she certainly DIDN'T disappoint me. We all discussed that rebuilding jumps are serious business, not to mention the fact that it takes YEARS, something that people just don't understand. There's also a lot of hype and expectation around her so they are all factors that probably contribute to her performance in competitions. I can understand why people feel concerned since this Mao is not the Mao that we know. But she's getting there eventually and really, she is a GENIUS for improving so rapidly even when she's participating in a competition. There's no sign of her wanting to take the easy road and as her fans, we should expect a bumpy ride.

So yeah, I don't know about you guys but I am happy with what I am seeing. There's more aggressiveness, more fire and more flow. She's definitely not there yet, but we've already established the fact that she's gonna have to throw a few competitions away. What I am worried about is her reputation though. The PCS scores aren't a good sign.

I don't think you should be worried about the PCS scores cause once mao get her jumps back she will automatically get higher PCS scores, it just that the judges don't seem to be able to give high PCS scores if the skater is not clean or atleast almost clean. just look at kiiras scores she was clean and that's hy her PCS scores were so high eventhrough I personally don't agree with it..... I just hope mao has a better free skate today my nerves are not going to take it if she skates like NHK...

ballerinamao wrote:

klarification wrote:

It's obvious that Mao can't do well in competitions right now. She still has a lot of nerves and when she becomes tense, her muscle memory acts up and overtakes her system. Still, her SP and practice clips gives me a lot of hope and she certainly DIDN'T disappoint me. We all discussed that rebuilding jumps are serious business, not to mention the fact that it takes YEARS, something that people just don't understand. There's also a lot of hype and expectation around her so they are all factors that probably contribute to her performance in competitions. I can understand why people feel concerned since this Mao is not the Mao that we know. But she's getting there eventually and really, she is a GENIUS for improving so rapidly even when she's participating in a competition. There's no sign of her wanting to take the easy road and as her fans, we should expect a bumpy ride.

So yeah, I don't know about you guys but I am happy with what I am seeing. There's more aggressiveness, more fire and more flow. She's definitely not there yet, but we've already established the fact that she's gonna have to throw a few competitions away. What I am worried about is her reputation though. The PCS scores aren't a good sign.

I don't think you should be worried about the PCS scores cause once mao get her jumps back she will automatically get higher PCS scores, it just that the judges don't seem to be able to give high PCS scores if the skater is not clean or atleast almost clean. just look at kiiras scores she was clean and that's hy her PCS scores were so high eventhrough I personally don't agree with it..... I just hope mao has a better free skate today my nerves are not going to take it if she skates like NHK...

Still her SP yesterday was better then at NHK, and in FP she has more chances to execute jumps she wants, so today will be better.

inspiration* wrote:

Actually, to be honest, I am not sure if the MU idea works well with Mao. My understanding of MU is that it means embodying a sense of nothingness and doing nothing. I am not sure that mental state would affect one's connection with music and display of passion. But that's just my personal opinion; only Mao knows what best suits her.

I guess MU here just means "without thinking about other things", or "just concentrate only on skating", doesn't mean not connect with music etc.

I think I heard Nobuo sensei in K&C said to Mao "随分近づいたね=Zuibun chikazuita ne", which means "It got considerably closer (to the perfection?).", if I didn't get wrong.

mingming wrote:

inspiration* wrote:

Actually, to be honest, I am not sure if the MU idea works well with Mao. My understanding of MU is that it means embodying a sense of nothingness and doing nothing. I am not sure that mental state would affect one's connection with music and display of passion. But that's just my personal opinion; only Mao knows what best suits her.

I guess MU here just means "without thinking about other things", or "just concentrate only on skating", doesn't mean not connect with music etc.

I think I heard Nobuo sensei in K&C said to Mao "随分近づいたね=Zuibun chikazuita ne", which means "It got considerably closer (to the perfection?).", if I didn't get wrong.

Thanks mingming! It it was really what Sato said then I'm happy!

I completely agree about the spins. Watching live, everyone looked awkward and slow while spinning. Even Mirai's spins were slower than I was expecting. They need to do something about that rule, it's doing nothing good for the sport.

dangerous_angel_face wrote:

I completely agree about the spins. Watching live, everyone looked awkward and slow while spinning. Even Mirai's spins were slower than I was expecting. They need to do something about that rule, it's doing nothing good for the sport.

Sometimes I think it's only about revolutions. You can make an ugly position,spin slow as a dying turtle but make a necessary count of revolutions and yey, you get your level 4! Weird.

polosatik wrote:

dangerous_angel_face wrote:

I completely agree about the spins. Watching live, everyone looked awkward and slow while spinning. Even Mirai's spins were slower than I was expecting. They need to do something about that rule, it's doing nothing good for the sport.

Sometimes I think it's only about revolutions. You can make an ugly position,spin slow as a dying turtle but make a necessary count of revolutions and yey, you get your level 4! Weird.

*nods head* When the elements blends into the choreography and music flawlessly, the spins used to create some very special moments on the ice. For example, I love the arrangement of Mao's spins in her Clair de lune SP, especially the last part. And for me, it's just simply exciting to see skaters end their skates on an uplifting note, accompanied with a strong, centered fast combination spin, like Mirai did at her Oly performances. Now I rarely get excited about seeing the skaters spin as I worry about whether he centered the spin/completed the revolutions or not...

But back to Mao. Her team really needs to address her spin issues. It's only since recently (the Oly season) that she FINALLY got consistent level 4s for her spins. Before last season, she's pretty much the same as this season: she loses levels all the time because she doesn't complete the required revolutions - something that is TOTALLY UNNECESSARY for a skater of her caliber.

I noticed in her FS practice runthrough that if they don't tweak the final combo, it's very likely she will fail to get high levels on that one as well. She just didn't hold her positions and revolutions long enough. It's usually the second or third position in the spin - probably because she's trying to be in sync with the music.

Oh well, just a bit of ranting. Probably this shouldn't be in her priority list right now. GOOOOOO MAOOO!

snowdrops24 wrote:

polosatik wrote:

dangerous_angel_face wrote:

I completely agree about the spins. Watching live, everyone looked awkward and slow while spinning. Even Mirai's spins were slower than I was expecting. They need to do something about that rule, it's doing nothing good for the sport.

Sometimes I think it's only about revolutions. You can make an ugly position,spin slow as a dying turtle but make a necessary count of revolutions and yey, you get your level 4! Weird.

*nods head* When the elements blends into the choreography and music flawlessly, the spins used to create some very special moments on the ice. For example, I love the arrangement of Mao's spins in her Clair de lune SP, especially the last part. And for me, it's just simply exciting to see skaters end their skates on an uplifting note, accompanied with a strong, centered fast combination spin, like Mirai did at her Oly performances. Now I rarely get excited about seeing the skaters spin as I worry about whether he centered the spin/completed the revolutions or not...

But back to Mao. Her team really needs to address her spin issues. It's only since recently (the Oly season) that she FINALLY got consistent level 4s for her spins. Before last season, she's pretty much the same as this season: she loses levels all the time because she doesn't complete the required revolutions - something that is TOTALLY UNNECESSARY for a skater of her caliber.

I noticed in her FS practice runthrough that if they don't tweak the final combo, it's very likely she will fail to get high levels on that one as well. She just didn't hold her positions and revolutions long enough. It's usually the second or third position in the spin - probably because she's trying to be in sync with the music.

Oh well, just a bit of ranting. Probably this shouldn't be in her priority list right now. GOOOOOO MAOOO!

Btw something wrong was yesterday with Mirai's spins. She was struggling at them and it's so unusual for her.

mingming wrote:

inspiration* wrote:

Actually, to be honest, I am not sure if the MU idea works well with Mao. My understanding of MU is that it means embodying a sense of nothingness and doing nothing. I am not sure that mental state would affect one's connection with music and display of passion. But that's just my personal opinion; only Mao knows what best suits her.

I guess MU here just means "without thinking about other things", or "just concentrate only on skating", doesn't mean not connect with music etc.

Exactly! Plus, Mao also mentioned the word 'MUSHIN' in another interview. This word is 'MU (無)' followed by 'SHIN (心)' and the latter means heart. If you take 'MU' in a non-philosophical sense, it does simply mean 'nothing'. However, 'MUSHIN' is slightly different. It is linked with the idea of a pure heart; which does not crave, desire nor greed for anything, but a heart which acts upon the means for the sake of the means, not to an end. Since Mao also said 'I will try not to be greedy', I think the notion of 'MU' which Sato told her may be defined as being closer to 'MUSHIN'. Also, when Mao said she will avoid being greedy, I think she meant she won't be greedy to try to jump perfectly. As she said in the same interview that she is aiming to win, obviously she wasn't talking about the entire competition results. I think Sato's idea of 'MU' meant something like 'don't think about jumping perfectly. Don't crave for something you haven't totally mastered yet. Just focus on the fact that you are about to jump and do it like an innocent child with joy'...sort of thing. Mao said she wants to jump like she did around 2005. She was still a child purely enjoying skating at the time, so I think it's only natural for Sato to advise her to be like then as much as she can.

Anyway, I understand it must be pretty different in other cultures, but 'MU' and 'MUSHIN' are acknowledged as a type of true wisdom in Japanese culture as far as I know. The sense of nothingness in those 2 words are not the same thing as emptiness. There is a way of thinking in Japanese culture, that all human emotions distracts one from seeing the truth or succeeding what is needed to be done. Blocking them away is thought to be necessary at times.

Some news about Mao's SP from"you know who" (care bear from fsonline)
She got 70% of 3a and 3f, combo spin is level 1, layback is level4, other elements are level 3. For her combo she got 7.10 with good GOE, not sure how much though.

i.ve watched mao's sp at youtube...she ranked 7th with technical elements: 24.66
presentation score: 27.44 deduction:-2.00 short program: 50.10

i was wondering something....will ESPN broadcast TEB?

FatiniAdlina wrote:

i.ve watched mao's sp at youtube...she ranked 7th with technical elements: 24.66
presentation score: 27.44 deduction:-2.00 short program: 50.10

i was wondering something....will ESPN broadcast TEB?

ESPN hasnt broadcast skating for 2 years now.. universalsports.com

dont know if anyone spoke about this but why did the videographer/network feel the need to have reaction shots of sato-san once mao fell on her 1st jump? i thought it was odd. guess there is so much media hype about mao and her jumps and new coach.

ballerinamao wrote:

I don't think you should be worried about the PCS scores cause once mao get her jumps back she will automatically get higher PCS scores, it just that the judges don't seem to be able to give high PCS scores if the skater is not clean or atleast almost clean. just look at kiiras scores she was clean and that's hy her PCS scores were so high eventhrough I personally don't agree with it..... I just hope mao has a better free skate today my nerves are not going to take it if she skates like NHK...

It would be great if it really happens this way. But unfortunately, that's not how the judging works. PCS is like a reputation score, so once a skater's PCS lowers, it also means their reputation with the judges have lowered. This isn't good because it usually takes a while for the PCS to rise up again. Joannie, who also reworked her lutz, struggled with consistency for 2 years, and it took a while for her PCS to gradually increase to the point that she usually gets higher PCS than Mao now. Akiko is another skater who deserves high PCS but it took the judges a long time to finally give her the PCS she deserves. Mao does have a bigger reputation than the other two, but the decreasing trend in her PCS is still not a good sign, and it also means that she'll be at more of a disadvantage against Yuna in that department.

polosatik wrote:

Some news about Mao's SP from"you know who" (care bear from fsonline)
She got 70% of 3a and 3f, combo spin is level 1, layback is level4, other elements are level 3. For her combo she got 7.10 with good GOE, not sure how much though.

Thanks! This is evidence that her jumps are improving gradually. Now, if only Mao can start fully rotating her jumps in the air before she lands, so even if she falls, she'll still get huge points. I know this is the Chan way, but it's what rewarded in this system.

ETA: I just read a ladies' report from Claire Moloko (http://www.formspring.me/MissMoloko) who watched it live and the person said that the popped axel in warmup might have affected Mao's nerves. Besides her jump mistakes, she said the rest of her skating was very good.

dlnnyc wrote:

dont know if anyone spoke about this but why did the videographer/network feel the need to have reaction shots of sato-san once mao fell on her 1st jump? i thought it was odd. guess there is so much media hype about mao and her jumps and new coach.

They did the same thing to every male and female skater at TEB, from the 6-min warm-up to the their SP performance.

For example at the men's 6-min warm-up, every time they introduce a skater, they show their jumps on one side of the screen and their coach's reactions on the other. Well, let's just say that the coaches looked awkward because they sometimes noticed the presence of the cameras and they all try to keep a straight face/cover up their original facial expressions.

ETA: Thank you for the info, polosatik!

Oh dear Mao…

I can’t say that I understand what Mao is going through at the moment, with a new coach, new jumping technique and all.
I myself, is trying to fix my single toe-axel to a proper single toe, and it’s so difficult to break old habits! Imagine doing it with a triple jump…Mao is such a brave girl.

Hope that Mao can skate with more freedom tonight, I don’t care about placements I just want to see her (genuine) smile at the end of the routine and in the kiss’n’cry.