Sochi Olympics 2014!

Hello everyone

I've been reading every post of this forum for a long time but did not dare to register before, don't know why. Anyway, i'm also a big big big fan of Mao and i'm joining you all to send her our cheers !!  

GO MAO GOOOOO !!! You are the best !!  

Welcome to our forum, Otchoto de mus :3!   

I was at ice dancing today and problem with fans is that there are only a half
of arena with skating fans and others are hockey fans who decided to go to this competition.
They know nothing about skating. I will tell you what is the problem with tickets and why there are too much of crazy fans right there.
Today i shouted at them,because i lost all my patience. This is not usual Russian skating fans,they see fg once in 4 years and can't
tell the difference between pairs and ice dance. I hope you guys won't bring this topic anymore.

There's someone on GS who criticizes Mao's jumps for often being close to 1/4 short and claims that judges should give automatic -1 in GOE for that. I disagree. First, doesn't the rules allow 1/4 leeway in rotations, and is there a rule that says judges have to deduct if a jump is not perfectly rotated? And also, how often do a skater fully rotate all of their jumps in competition? I often see jumps a little short of rotation even on skaters who are known to have great technique. And I also see skaters getting credited with jumps that look far more questionable than Mao's at times. Also, there are a few skaters who have great technique but often fall/pop their jumps in competitions (Kostner, Chan). Does that make them better skaters or competitors? I mean judges aren't judging your technique. They are judging your performances. I felt a bit frustrated reading that comment because the poster thinks Mao isn't medal worthy because of her technique issues. I just felt given Mao's overall skating quality; it was such undeserved criticism.

But anyway today all teams performed really well
and it was such a joy to watch. I'very sad for Katya and Dima.
But they lost by SD. Fd points difference I didn't take seriously.

There are a lot of talks that Mao's best is bronze,cause Julia and Yuna
are more consistent,and that all Mao jumps are Ur and blah blah. Let's
support Mao and with our support she can deliver,I believe in her!

polosatik wrote:

There are a lot of talks that Mao's best is bronze,cause Julia and Yuna
are more consistent,and that all Mao jumps are Ur and blah blah. Let's
support Mao and with our support she can deliver,I believe in her!

I agree. I think there are too many armchair specialists on the internet giving out biased analysis of skaters' jumps. Anyways, if even they claim it is within the 1/4 range, then I really don't see the problem since the RULES allow for those jumps to be credited. Shrug.

Thanks Aysa for your report!

Thanks for the reports, Asya!   Too bad about Katya and Dima. I hope they get a better LP next season, they struggle with finding something that would truly suit them.

aoi88 wrote:

There's someone on GS who criticizes Mao's jumps for often being close to 1/4 short and claims that judges should give automatic -1 in GOE for that.

That somebody got stuck on some jumps that weren't landed well because Mao still didn't feel 100% confident with her jumps (or skated while suffering from back pain). Those landed in practice session here look great and should score well as long as Mao maintains her condition and confidence.

I found another clip from the later practice session:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtvzcOmbPWo
Reportedly Mao didn't do a run-through with jumps in the later session, just warmed up her jumps outside of the RT.

linglang wrote:

I read a news article pasted on twitter about a week ago or so. IIRC, it said something like: it was last fall when Mao was at her rink and putting her skates on, she said quietly "Will I be doing training like now around this time next year?" Then, Kumiko-sensei said to her "Take a break for a year or two and come back!"

Not to be too optimistic, and knock on wood, but:

Quote :

Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil
Mao Asada: "I don't want to say this is my final competition. I don't want to regret it later."

...I think there's a sliver of chance that Mao might be leaving her options open.  

inskate wrote:

Thanks for the reports, Asya!   Too bad about Katya and Dima. I hope they get a better LP next season, they struggle with finding something that would truly suit them.

aoi88 wrote:

There's someone on GS who criticizes Mao's jumps for often being close to 1/4 short and claims that judges should give automatic -1 in GOE for that.

That somebody got stuck on some jumps that weren't landed well because Mao still didn't feel 100% confident with her jumps (or skated while suffering from back pain). Those landed in practice session here look great and should score well as long as Mao maintains her condition and confidence.

I found another clip from the later practice session:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtvzcOmbPWo
Reportedly Mao didn't do a run-through with jumps in the later session, just warmed up her jumps outside of the RT.

That said poster has always been well-known for nitpicking on Mao and Miki's underrotation issues. Anyways, I would like to know what are the GOE requirements for a credited jump that is a little short but within 1/4. I believe it should be up to the judges' right?

polosatik wrote:

I was at ice dancing today and problem with fans is that there are only a half
of arena with skating fans and others are hockey fans who decided to go to this competition.
They know nothing about skating. I will tell you what is the problem with tickets and why there are too much of crazy fans right there.
Today i shouted at them,because i lost all my patience. This is not usual Russian skating fans,they see fg once in 4 years and can't
tell the difference between pairs and ice dance. I hope you guys won't bring this topic anymore.

Good for you, they were ridiculous. I remember Moscow 2011 and the fans there were amazing , it's why I was so disapointed this time. Now I understand why they're behaving this way. Thanx for explaining.

aoi88 wrote:

That said poster has always been well-known for nitpicking on Mao and Miki's underrotation issues. Anyways, I would like to know what are the GOE requirements for a credited jump that is a little short but within 1/4. I believe it should be up to the judges' right?

I feel that in general GS has turned into a Yuna forum, where critisizing Mao is a must and God forbid anyone says anything bad about "the queen".    I'm not saying that this is what happens in actual Yuna forum. I'm not a memeber there, so I have no clue how Mao is being treated there. I mean no ofense.

I agree with polosatik, I believe in Mao. Look at her practices, they're freaking amazing. if she brings this to actual competition, Yulia and Yuna are toast. Besides how can anyone critisize Mao and at the same time ignores many of Yulia's flaws is beyond me.
As for 1/4 UR, very few skaters at very few times land a jump that wouldn't be within 1/4 UR allowance. In fact this almost never happens. This is why it's allowed. Honestly, people need to stop hating on Mao and get a life. Again, IMO of course.  

zarinaballerina wrote:

I agree with polosatik, I believe in Mao. Look at her practices, they're freaking amazing. if she brings this to actual competition, Yulia and Yuna are toast. Besides how can anyone critisize Mao and at the same time ignores many of Yulia's flaws is beyond me.
As for 1/4 UR, very few skaters at very few times land a jump that wouldn't be within 1/4 UR allowance. In fact this almost never happens. This is why it's allowed. Honestly, people need to stop hating on Mao and get a life. Again, IMO of course.

Julia is receiving her fair share of criticism. I just don't feel the criticism aimed at Mao is deserved especially since she never got such a pass over her flaws since COP started to be so nitpicky. Actually, I went to check the rules and found out that it does mention giving neg GOE for slightly underrotated jumps but jumps can also earn plus GOE if they fit other criteria such as difficult entry, height, distance, delayed jump, etc. So it is possible for a jump within the 1/4 range to get 0 or even plus GOE if they factor everything. Also, I noticed telegraphed jumps should get neg GOE. Lol. Kostner is famous for telegraphing a lot of her jumps and she gets huge GOEs as long as she lands them. So I don't see anything wrong with Mao getting some GOE for her credited jumps.

aoi88 wrote:

zarinaballerina wrote:

I agree with polosatik, I believe in Mao. Look at her practices, they're freaking amazing. if she brings this to actual competition, Yulia and Yuna are toast. Besides how can anyone critisize Mao and at the same time ignores many of Yulia's flaws is beyond me.
As for 1/4 UR, very few skaters at very few times land a jump that wouldn't be within 1/4 UR allowance. In fact this almost never happens. This is why it's allowed. Honestly, people need to stop hating on Mao and get a life. Again, IMO of course.

Julia is receiving her fair share of criticism. I just don't feel the criticism aimed at Mao is deserved especially since she never got such a pass over her flaws since COP started to be so nitpicky. Actually, I went to check the rules and found out that it does mention giving neg GOE for slightly underrotated jumps but jumps can also earn plus GOE if they fit other criteria such as difficult entry, height, distance, delayed jump, etc. So it is possible for a jump within the 1/4 range to get 0 or even plus GOE if they factor everything. Also, I noticed telegraphed jumps should get neg GOE. Lol. Kostner is famous for telegraphing a lot of her jumps and she gets huge GOEs as long as she lands them. So I don't see anything wrong with Mao getting some GOE for her credited jumps.

Actually, Caro telegraphs all of her jumps, it's why I never understand why she receives such a high score. Even Yuna lands some of her jumps close to the 1/4 UR rule. It's very difficult landing pristine clean jumps while skating to a 4 minute program. i never understood why Mao is so hated. She has always been a great skater, but in the past 4 years, she's improved so much, while others either kept what they were always doing, or became worse.

What I don't understand though, is how can all those ex skaters who are now commentating, jump on Yulia wagon so eagerly. Hello, they're proffesionals, they of all people should know and see what's wrong with her technicque, her tiny jumps, she practically stops when she lands them. They were bitching about Zhenya's score (yeah it was much too high) but at the same time, they were absolutey amazed by Yulia, and her 73 SP score and 141+ LP score was fine. Really?

aoi88 wrote:

zarinaballerina wrote:

I agree with polosatik, I believe in Mao. Look at her practices, they're freaking amazing. if she brings this to actual competition, Yulia and Yuna are toast. Besides how can anyone critisize Mao and at the same time ignores many of Yulia's flaws is beyond me.
As for 1/4 UR, very few skaters at very few times land a jump that wouldn't be within 1/4 UR allowance. In fact this almost never happens. This is why it's allowed. Honestly, people need to stop hating on Mao and get a life. Again, IMO of course.

Julia is receiving her fair share of criticism. I just don't feel the criticism aimed at Mao is deserved especially since she never got such a pass over her flaws since COP started to be so nitpicky. Actually, I went to check the rules and found out that it does mention giving neg GOE for slightly underrotated jumps but jumps can also earn plus GOE if they fit other criteria such as difficult entry, height, distance, delayed jump, etc. So it is possible for a jump within the 1/4 range to get 0 or even plus GOE if they factor everything. Also, I noticed telegraphed jumps should get neg GOE. Lol. Kostner is famous for telegraphing a lot of her jumps and she gets huge GOEs as long as she lands them. So I don't see anything wrong with Mao getting some GOE for her credited jumps.

lol if the judges actually followed the goe guidelines Mao should be getting +2 and +3 on all her jumps, because unlike carolina and kim, Mao has alot of transitions either going into her jumps or out of them. Her jumps have height, and distance another two guidelines, and quite often her jumps delay in the air something she had since she was a kid. and her landing and take of is light as a feather another recognizable quality I really appreciate in her jumps!

I always laugh when I hear people talk about goe, because most of the time goe is given to skaters is such a hot mess, and you youself have mentioned a few of the skaters who don't fulfill the guidelines but still receive quite alot of goe anyway another good example to use for me is Julia her tiny telegraphed jumps used to only receive 0 and +1 suddenly they receive much much more, despite no noticeable difference or change. my best advice is to take this nonsense these hater keep spouting,  with a grain salt.

zarinaballerina wrote:

Actually, Caro telegraphs all of her jumps, it's why I never understand why she receives such a high score. Even Yuna lands some of her jumps close to the 1/4 UR rule. It's very difficult landing pristine clean jumps while skating to a 4 minute program. i never understood why Mao is so hated. She has always been a great skater, but in the past 4 years, she's improved so much, while others either kept what they were always doing, or became worse.

What I don't understand though, is how can all those ex skaters who are now commentating, jump on Yulia wagon so eagerly. Hello, they're proffesionals, they of all people should know and see what's wrong with her technicque, her tiny jumps, she practically stops when she lands them. They were bitching about Zhenya's score (yeah it was much too high) but at the same time, they were absolutey amazed by Yulia, and her 73 SP score and 141+ LP score was fine. Really?

I don't think Mao is "hated". She has a lot of supporters on forums, and I've see many people listing her in their dream podium picks. There are just a group of critics who don't like her jumping technique and unfortunately can't see the the other great qualities in her skating. I have an issue with these armchair analysis because it presents a biased/inaccurate view of the scoring system for general skating fans who might not know the rules that well. A lot of the analysis are based on what they perceive to be a good jump and they are basing scores on their preferences for a skater's technique/style rather than on the actual performances.

I'm very busy these days but I'm trying to spend some time watching the competitions live if I can, it's the Olympics after all!   

First, thank you Polosatik for sharing your thoughts and pointing out what's going on with the audience. Have a great time in Sochi and send Mao good vibes, as you usually do!   

I really enjoyed the free dance (was not able to watch the SD, though, I'll try to find some videos). I found V/M exquisite but as I said some time ago this program lacks impact, it's beautiful but they could do much better. Nevertheless, they skated very well so they deserve getting those huge scores. D/W were awesome as usual, nothing unexpected really. I enjoyed I/K's performance a lot, I've seen this program live once and it's really exciting. Yes, they've been probably overscored, but I agree with their placing.

As for Mao's jumps, all this "close to 1/4" issue is silly. Almost every skater lacks rotation (1/8-1/4) when jumping, as zarinaballerina said. All these people who enjoy scrutinizing Mao's jump should establish a fair method to count rotation since they seem to base most of their observations on quite weak theories. All the annoying "triple axel rotated or not?" threads are full of people who don't even know when to start counting rotation or just base their comments on how much does Mao rotate on the ice without even paying attention to the take off. It's funny how no one mentions prerotation in men's triple axels (Patrick is an example) and then everyone counts Mao's rotation in the triple axel from the moment her blade leaves the ice. Please, learn how to count first, buy new glasses and then comment on Mao's jumps  

I think people should understand that skaters aren't been scored on their technique in itself. Not to mention there isn't a standard technique for jumps. All we do know is that some techniques are more ideal than others and leads to less deductions in jumps. I mean good technique helps a skater score well but it's still the performance that counts. And based on GOE criteria, I feel a lot of it is subjective and probably depends on how the judge sees the jump in real time. I just don't think it's reasonable for a judge to scrutinize obsessively over every single jump, unless it's called underrotated, whereby I understand that it warrants a neg GOE. From those who have seen Mao skate live recently, they have mentioned that her jumps are pretty impressive. And I will definitely rate her jumps higher than Julia's jumps.

Thanks for the tell us about the weird audience polosatik.
Iceriver did you see to Sara Hurtado and Adria Diaz? They are incredible, it is my first time watching them   I hope they continue for this way, They have a great future, Spain is lucky with Javier, Sara and Adria.
I am happy with the final medals, Davis and White deserve a gold medal and Tessa and Scott had their gold medal in Vancouver.
i/k great, but I hope they get better programs in the future, their swan lake is so cheap and predictable   , same for the Shibs, last chance for Marina give a really great program or they better get another coach   I noted that in Ice dance the program is really important, more than individuals or pairs.

My favourites performances today were 1. Poje/Weber   . 2. Sara and Adria    3. Virtue/Moir   

aoi88 wrote:

I think people should understand that skaters aren't been scored on their technique in itself. Not to mention there isn't a standard technique for jumps. All we do know is that some techniques are more ideal than others and leads to less deductions in jumps. I mean good technique helps a skater score well but it's still the performance that counts. And based on GOE criteria, I feel a lot of it is subjective and probably depends on how the judge sees the jump in real time. I just don't think it's reasonable for a judge to scrutinize obsessively over every single jump, unless it's called underrated, whereby I understand that it warrants a neg GOE. From those who have seen Mao skate live recently, they have mentioned that her jumps are pretty impressive. And I will definitely rate her jumps higher than Julia's jumps.

There is really nothing to compare there    that's why I hope she will be rightfully rewarded for what she presents on the ice, and like you said most people who have watched Mao live, all were quite impressed with her jumps, just this week there have been numerous twitts from different people that all praised how impressive her jumps were. I would take their words and what we have seen with our own eyes any day over what the haters say.
but like you, i know it's very subjective subject and the judges know that too, that's why they also use it the way they have done over the past many years.

Does anyone have Mao's planned layout for both her SP and LP?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/mao-asada-focused-on-other-triple-jumps-in-sochi/2014/02/17/f09c482c-97ea-11e3-ae45-458927ccedb6_story.html

"Asada said Monday she felt a bit overwhelmed by the team event but is more confident now as her conditioning improves."

On Twitter:

Quote :

Ice-dance.com ‏@icedancecom
According to L'Equipe, @PechalatBourzat have retired and will not go to Worlds.

I really liked their programs.

tigster wrote:

Does anyone have Mao's planned layout for both her SP and LP?

I think she's doing 3a, 3f+2lo, and 3lo in the SP and 3a, 3f+3lo, 3lz, 2a+3t, 3s, 3f, 3lo in the FS?

l-spiralmao wrote:

tigster wrote:

Does anyone have Mao's planned layout for both her SP and LP?

I think she's doing 3a, 3f+2lo, and 3lo in the SP and 3a, 3f+3lo, 3lz, 2a+3t, 3s, 3f, 3lo in the FS?

Yes, except her SP layout is 3a, 3f, and 3lo+2lo. And her LP layout is 3a, 3f+3lo, 3lz, 2a+3t, 3s, and 3lo+2lo+2lo.