Skate America

chineseteacup wrote:

inskate wrote:

Two words: bad karma, so please stop. Skate Gods are flimsy creatures!

If that were true, Yu-Na should have fallen clean through the ice ages ago, based on the amount of anti-Mao and anti-Japan sentiment on youtube alone.

Well, to be fair, I think there seems to be plenty of anti-yuna sentiment here... I get it that people don't necessarily have to like her, but to actually be happy that someone had a bad performance?

Umm....compared to Youtube...it's WAYYY better in here...There's like none. I barely see any. There's no racist, appearance-bashing, plain disrespectful comments here. If you're referring to that one post, then that hardly counts as "plenty...", and there was no name-calling whatsoever.

Edit: However, I don't think bashing skaters in general is right either.

I'm first of all figure skating fan and really want everyone to do their best.Yuna's LP was very painful to watch She looked lost there, and some of the fans were awful I wish Yuna all the best, and hope that she can handle with this pressure.

sapphiresky wrote:

Umm....compared to Youtube...it's WAYYY better in here...There's like none. I barely see any. There's no racist, appearance-bashing, plain disrespectful comments here. If you're referring to that one post, then that hardly counts as "plenty...", and there was no name-calling whatsoever.

Edit: However, I don't think bashing skaters in general is right either.

Actually, I meant the many subtle comments in several threads where the implications speak more than what's in fact written.

But youtube? That place is pretty stupid, if you ask me. The mean comments on some skaters' vids seem to be written by five-year olds. (Of course, my English is not perfect either).

Well, there will always be people who don't like other skaters, but it seems to me that most people in this forum like them both and appreciate good skating when they see it. I personally just like Mao better lol.
It maybe just me, but I don't remember seeing many anti- comments on here, implied or not.
We just have to agree to disagree

Aibhlin wrote:

But youtube? That place is pretty stupid, if you ask me. The mean comments on some skaters' vids seem to be written by five-year olds. (Of course, my English is not perfect either).

This I agree with, I thought you were comparing with Youtube, my bad.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I prefer Mao too.

I guess SA results prove that nothing is set in stone. GPF and Olympics will be very interesting (though Olympics will be nerve-wracking as well).

And good job, Rachael, for grabbing that silver medal!

Talking about having mixed feelings towards certain skaters... Personally, I just don't like cynical, arrogant, egocentric liars. Nothing else.

I'm not happy because Kim had a bad performance. I just think that she always gets everything, the best results and the highest scores even when she doesn't deserve it. But I don't say she never deserves it!! No, I do think she is a brilliant skater, and I always admired her scores - when she deserved it! But in the latest competitions, she received more and more world records even after several mistakes. That's why I'm happy now. She has to know that she isn't always so perfect.

I am not happy at all, I mean, this season has been a nightmare for me, Mao, Sasha, Daisuke, Taka and now Yuna!!!, God hates me or what?? They are my favorites skaters (Mao very above of my list of course )

I am supporting to all of you (Mao, Dai, Taka, Yuna) ,except Sasha

sorry my english

I'd just like to say that from what I've seen, people are a lot more polite in this forum than in a lot of others. Yes, many of us have a 'bias' (this is a forum for Mao fans, afterall), but that's okay as long as it's kept on a civil level.

I said earlier that I felt sorry for Yu-Na after that free skate, but that doesn't mean I didn't feel a little relieved as well. I hate to say it, but I think even I sort of bought in to the media's opinions--not about Yu-Na's 'unbeatable artistry', but that she seemed so solid with the jumps, even though she left one out at her first competition. Meanwhile everyone else has been struggling. Now I think it's clear to everyone, particularly the other skaters, that she too can falter, and I think if nothing else this gives them hope.

She is still over-scored, IMO, on both marks, but particularly components. It is a shame, because anytime someone is overrated like that, it makes it more difficult to like them. I personally have to work hard sometimes to separate my dislike of her marks and the commentators' absolute worship of her from her actual skating.

illani wrote:

I'd just like to say that from what I've seen, people are a lot more polite in this forum than in a lot of others. Yes, many of us have a 'bias' (this is a forum for Mao fans, afterall), but that's okay as long as it's kept on a civil level.

I said earlier that I felt sorry for Yu-Na after that free skate, but that doesn't mean I didn't feel a little relieved as well. I hate to say it, but I think even I sort of bought in to the media's opinions--not about Yu-Na's 'unbeatable artistry', but that she seemed so solid with the jumps, even though she left one out at her first competition. Meanwhile everyone else has been struggling. Now I think it's clear to everyone, particularly the other skaters, that she too can falter, and I think if nothing else this gives them hope.

She is still over-scored, IMO, on both marks, but particularly components. It is a shame, because anytime someone is overrated like that, it makes it more difficult to like them. I personally have to work hard sometimes to separate my dislike of her marks and the commentators' absolute worship of her from her actual skating.

I totally agree! I have the same problem, I think the commentators push me more into not liking her, but her skating's fine. I have to work at it like you do too lol

I have to admit, I was a little happy when Yuna screwed up the LP!... After her SP, a part of me was starting to think "God, how is anyone ever going to beat her?!..." Not that I don't think that Mao can't ever beat her again (cause I KNOW she will!), but seriously, even if Mao had the skate of her life, and did better than Yuna, I wouldn't be surprised if the judges still gave it to Yuna.

Although I always feel sorry for the skater, whoever they are when they mess up that bad, it was a bit relieving for me. I definitely do NOT feel bad for some of Yuna's fans on the other hand. I hope all of her crazy, Mao hating fans are choking on a piece of humble pie right now, in realization that "No. Yuna is NOT perfect!". lol. I don't care if that sounds mean or not. Some of those people are horrible!

sapphiresky wrote:

illani wrote:

I'd just like to say that from what I've seen, people are a lot more polite in this forum than in a lot of others. Yes, many of us have a 'bias' (this is a forum for Mao fans, afterall), but that's okay as long as it's kept on a civil level.

I said earlier that I felt sorry for Yu-Na after that free skate, but that doesn't mean I didn't feel a little relieved as well. I hate to say it, but I think even I sort of bought in to the media's opinions--not about Yu-Na's 'unbeatable artistry', but that she seemed so solid with the jumps, even though she left one out at her first competition. Meanwhile everyone else has been struggling. Now I think it's clear to everyone, particularly the other skaters, that she too can falter, and I think if nothing else this gives them hope.

She is still over-scored, IMO, on both marks, but particularly components. It is a shame, because anytime someone is overrated like that, it makes it more difficult to like them. I personally have to work hard sometimes to separate my dislike of her marks and the commentators' absolute worship of her from her actual skating.

I totally agree! I have the same problem, I think the commentators push me more into not liking her, but her skating's fine. I have to work at it like you do too lol

ITA with the bolded section, sapphiresky. No one is perfect!

You know, the funny thing is that everyone is going on and on about how great she is, expecting her to win the Olys and all that, and people like the comentators and newswriters are assuming her competitors are rattled by that. But in every interview she gave after the freeskate, she mentioned that she felt terrible pressure from trying to maintain that standard and be perfect. I think all this excessive hype in the end may be more damaging to Yuna than to anyone else. Like a few other people said, the favorite does not often win for obvious reasons.

My thoughts on SA:
1.One odd thing is that after SP, all people said that Yuna is unbeatable and someone even said that Yuna is already the Olympic champion,but while reading all these I strangely regain some hope for Mao, and the other day Yuna bombed in LP I didn't curse Yuna to fall or something,but thing just happened......
2.But I don't think Yuna's performance in SA is a good thing to Mao. I'm kinda superstitious and always look back to some statistical data. When is the last time Yuna bombed in LP? 2009 4CC. And what happened after that? Two consecutive wonderful performance(2009 World,2009 TEB). I don't say that the same thing will happen. This is only my superstition, just like most of our girls wear blue this year
3.What Mao could get in Vancouver mostly depend on her own condition. Yes, Yuna bombed. But even so, this score could easily beat Mao's seasonal best. So, if Mao can't perform well, she still has no hope for gold even if Yuna also bombed. Mao's seasonal best could be easily beaten by a clean Ando and Joannie.
4.About whether Yuna is overscored or not. Many people state that Yuna deserves all those scores because she is far superior than all other girls. I agree with this, especially when this year almost everyone has bad performance. Yuna deserves higher scores than all other girls. But, the problem is by how much? Before 2009 4CC, Yuna's personal best was at 72+ level. Then after world it was boosted to 76+ level. Could someone explain me where does these 4pts come from?What dramatic improvement Yuna had from 4CC to world? I don't only have this question to Yuna. When Mao got 75+ score in WTT, I also had such a question. When I saw Mao's score, I felt that judges are crazy. They suddenly increase these two girls to a too high level.

I wonder why people kept saying like "OK, she was the human and not always perfect." as if they thought Yu-na was always perfect.
Funny thing is that the short program is what she usually skates perfect. Whenever I think about the FS, the last time she skated clean is like years ago. she always has at least one mistake (not like DG but visually really mistake). She is really the short program queen though I never thought she is perfect. Sometimes I feel like judges give her huge score for her SP in order not to let anyone catches her overall because they know that she makes a mistake in FP. I just think giving her 76 is just way too much unless she does something that man does. I know she is brilliant at SP though.

coconut wrote:

I wonder why people kept saying like "OK, she was the human and not always perfect." as if they thought Yu-na was always perfect.
Funny thing is that the short program is what she usually skates perfect. Whenever I think about the FS, the last time she skated clean is like years ago. she always has at least one mistake (not like DG but visually really mistake). She is really the short program queen though I never thought she is perfect. Sometimes I feel like judges give her huge score for her SP in order not to let anyone catches her overall because they know that she makes a mistake in FP. I just think giving her 76 is just way too much unless she does something that man does. I know she is brilliant at SP though.

And more weird is that a lot of skaters start to get 3F ratified (isn't it Yuna's weakest jump?) and 3Lo is getting DG (Mao and Miki's strongest jump).

Well, I have to admit that I was really upset about the scoring at Worlds 2009, but I've gotten over it. Yes, the judges like Yu-Na Kim, but there's really nothing the skaters or we fans can do about it. All the skaters can do is make the judges see why they're even better, and I absolutely think that Mao can do that.

The NBC commentators said one thing that I really agreed with. I don't remember the exact quote, but they said something like "Yu-Na Kim basically is a shy person who has learned how to make it work/learned how to perform," something like that.

And that is exactly my issue with Yu-Na Kim's skating style--I feel like I can see the gap between Yu-Na Kim the person and Yu-Na Kim the character. Her performances don't make me think, "wow, this looks powerful and sexy"; instead, they make me think, "and this is where they told her to do this and that so that she looks powerful and sexy."

One article I read awhile ago said that Yu-Na Kim used to be quite shy, and Brian Orser really helped bring her out of her shell. Now, she no longer seems like a shy little girl--she definitely comes off as confident, mature and cute/funny on the variety shows. But still, something about her performance seems false to me. I feel the same way about Miki Ando's face-rubbing gestures and Mao's slap-slap "O" face in "Bells." It just doesn't seem genuine to me, and that's a real turn-off.

It was precisely this comment made me think of the 2003 interview with Mao, however. I'm not sure if it came out in my translation, but the author's message at the end was basically, "Mai is a beautiful, diligent skater, but Mao is special; you can tell that she's going to be a star." She was never shy and reserved like Yu-Na (although recently she is definitely a lot more reserved). I think she's a natural star, and that's why I think she can be charming in a performance in a way that Yu-Na and many other skaters cannot. (Coach Yamada did say in that recent article that "A charming program suits Mao," and I totally agree.")

However, I'm not sure she can be a "Queen" like Yu-Na. There is no question; when Yu-Na goes out there, she simply exudes confidence; you can read the "I'm totally going to kill this" look in her eye; she owns the arena.

Mao doesn't do that, even when she is feeling very confident. I don't think Mao has ever done that, and I'm not sure she ever will. It doesn't seem to fit her personality, the same way that "Queen Mao" sounds weird to me. She would never smile during a performance because she's thinking, "Look at me, I'm doing a great job and you're really enjoying it." She smiles because she's thinking, "OMG! I landed my triple axel, yay!' As she said in the 2003 interview, after she landed the triple-triple-triple, she just smiled naturally; she couldn't help it.

So yes, I would like Mao to go out there with confidence, but I think it might be too much to ask her to act like she owns the arena.

Let Yu-Na be a queen, but Mao, remember that you are an angel! That means superhuman!

Batsuchan wrote:

Well, I have to admit that I was really upset about the scoring at Worlds 2009, but I've gotten over it. Yes, the judges like Yu-Na Kim, but there's really nothing the skaters or we fans can do about it. All the skaters can do is make the judges see why they're even better, and I absolutely think that Mao can do that.

The NBC commentators said one thing that I really agreed with. I don't remember the exact quote, but they said something like "Yu-Na Kim basically is a shy person who has learned how to make it work/learned how to perform," something like that.

And that is exactly my issue with Yu-Na Kim's skating style--I feel like I can see the gap between Yu-Na Kim the person and Yu-Na Kim the character. Her performances don't make me think, "wow, this looks powerful and sexy"; instead, they make me think, "and this is where they told her to do this and that so that she looks powerful and sexy."

One article I read awhile ago said that Yu-Na Kim used to be quite shy, and Brian Orser really helped bring her out of her shell. Now, she no longer seems like a shy little girl--she definitely comes off as confident, mature and cute/funny on the variety shows. But still, something about her performance seems false to me. I feel the same way about Miki Ando's face-rubbing gestures and Mao's slap-slap "O" face in "Bells." It just doesn't seem genuine to me, and that's a real turn-off.

It was precisely this comment made me think of the 2003 interview with Mao, however. I'm not sure if it came out in my translation, but the author's message at the end was basically, "Mai is a beautiful, diligent skater, but Mao is special; you can tell that she's going to be a star." She was never shy and reserved like Yu-Na (although recently she is definitely a lot more reserved). I think she's a natural star, and that's why I think she can be charming in a performance in a way that Yu-Na and many other skaters cannot. (Coach Yamada did say in that recent article that "A charming program suits Mao," and I totally agree.")

However, I'm not sure she can be a "Queen" like Yu-Na. There is no question; when Yu-Na goes out there, she simply exudes confidence; you can read the "I'm totally going to kill this" look in her eye; she owns the arena.

Mao doesn't do that, even when she is feeling very confident. I don't think Mao has ever done that, and I'm not sure she ever will. It doesn't seem to fit her personality, the same way that "Queen Mao" sounds weird to me. She would never smile during a performance because she's thinking, "Look at me, I'm doing a great job and you're really enjoying it." She smiles because she's thinking, "OMG! I landed my triple axel, yay!' As she said in the 2003 interview, after she landed the triple-triple-triple, she just smiled naturally; she couldn't help it.

So yes, I would like Mao to go out there with confidence, but I think it might be too much to ask her to act like she owns the arena.

Let Yu-Na be a queen, but Mao, remember that you are an angel! That means superhuman!

I cannot say any other thing but totally agree with you

Great post Batsuchan

Batsuchan wrote:

whole post

Totally agree with this! Mao doesn't act. Everything is natural. Well, like you said, except for the slap2x "O" face (I don't like this also) 'coz it doesn't really seem like Mao.

Great post, Batsuchan

I think Mao will always be more of a 'Princess' than a 'Queen' because, in my mind, a Queen dominates and commands obeisance from her subjects, while a Princess is there simply to be loved and admired.

Which is the way I feel about Mao

Batsuchan wrote:

whole post

That was an amazing post
You voiced a lot of good points, especially the fact that Mao is more of an "angel" than an ice "queen."
Thanks you!

dont you all think that "performing" is an important aspect for a skater tho?

i do think yuna is musically literate and connects v. well with all types of music. i do think she gets advice on it but not everything is cued up for her. she is moved by musical passages that i feel are genuine. and she conveys that outwardly to judges and to the audience at the rink as well as at home.

mao is more internal as she has gotten older. when she was younger she was more open to the external... "look what i can do world" now she seems more introspective and looks like she is thinking. not saying that it is bad or good. just saying.

perception is everything! however, yuna seems more "performer" and mao more "artist".

roma wrote:

Batsuchan wrote:

whole post

Totally agree with this! Mao doesn't act. Everything is natural. Well, like you said, except for the slap2x "O" face (I don't like this also) 'coz it doesn't really seem like Mao.

i think mao is trying to shed her light, airy, sweet side with BELLS and more dramatic choreo. she is trying to show people a diff. side to her... that she is not a one note but is diverse. when i watch this program the "O"'s seem so on cue.. more spontaneous facial expressions at the right moments or when she is feeling something to come out more.

^Yeah. Agree. She wants to show a different Mao with Bells and her "O" face is on cue.

It was posted before somewhere when asked about it that she said she's imitating TAT for "power" or something like that. That's why it doesn't really seem like Mao for me. I want to feel that "power" coming from Mao herself. But then that's just my pov. I do like the program overall and hope that Mao can master it.

I miss Mao. When is the sked for Japanese Nationals?