Winter Olympics 2010

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I really don't like how this new system is being applied, rewarding rather mediocre interpretation. Kim's 007 plays on flirty/seductive movements and is in my view, not Art.

Haha, o wow. Isn't it enough that 'art' of skating involves excellence in expression, in Yuna's case, the seductive/enchanting/bad girl image of a Bond Girl? But you're right, we should just not allow skaters to express anything other than more 'artistic' interpretations, how dare skaters flirt on ice, or dance hip hop as in Daisuke Takahashi's case some time ago!

Sorry, but no one said she can't look like a bond girl, it's just that she's been receiving too much credit for it. Takahashi got points for his skating technique, not for looking attractive, or seductive, or whatever. Also, the best he got with his hip hop was only 10 points more than Yuna did yesterday (88 at 2008 4CC). So, I guess you're overreacting about this issue.

MaoMaoRevolution wrote:

How is that Yu-Na's programs are always the same, but she ends up getting like +2 points at every new competition

This is something I'd really like to know.

Depending on the results tomorrow, I'll give up figure skating. Simply because I feel too idiotic cheering and getting nervous when results seem to have been already planned.

I believe that even if Mao lands the 3As and all her jumps, she even runs the risk of placing below Rochette, if the latter skates clean (no offence to her feelings, but this is a sport). =/

MaoMaoRevolution wrote:

How is that Yu-Na's programs are always the same, but she ends up getting like +2 points at every new competition

I thought it was obvious. She just did better! In the opinion of professional and trained judges anyway. As for the opinions of untrained masses, i.e. us in this forum, they can diverge as you can see, but among critical eyes Yu-na seems to be getting the recognition she deserves. In my opinion of course =)

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I thought it was obvious. She just did better!

In what aspect?

Sorry, but professionals just seem to biased IMO. There was nothing different, nothing new. The same simple spiral positions and lack of flexibility. The difference was the 3-3 combo and a better coreography. But how come she got +2 GOE for 3Lz-3T and Mao only +0.60 for a 3A-2T? It's just too unfair.

Poor Amodio, outscored by a girl. She should be sent to the men's event. Maybe she can beat Plushenko too.

I do agree that yuna did better, but not by 5 points.
2 points was fine..

☆Genie wrote:

I do agree that yuna did better, but not by 5 points.
2 points was fine..

Agreed. Yuna has great speed, better transitions/coreography and her jumps were a bit more solid. But 5 points is just too much.

My impression from Mao. First of all, during Mao's short I was sitting under my table yeah. When she landed her 3a-2t I couldn't breathe, it was GORGEOUS! This was the best short I've seen from Mao! So light, so joyful, just PERFECT! And I love russian commentators, the were on Mao's side and was hoping for 75 or even more Also they were very supportive for Joannie

I think it's the unbalanced way of the judging system. It seems for scoring purposes, only the number of revolutions and secs one holds a spin or spiral is counted for levels and GOE. That's probably why Mao and Yuna got the same GOE for those elements. They should also take into count position, lines, and flexibility in my opinion, which Mao is just better and should be awared more for.

alyssa wrote:

Sorry, but professionals just seem to biased IMO. There was nothing different, nothing new. The same simple spiral positions and lack of flexibility. The difference was the 3-3 combo and a better coreography. But how come she got +2 GOE for 3Lz-3T and Mao only +0.60 for a 3A-2T? It's just too unfair.

I agree with you. Not just about the system, but I don't like judges being unfair when they are giving GOE for anything. The GEO of Mirai's Spiral sequence is lower than Yu-na's. Clearly, judges are being biased. They gave Yu-na 8.65 for her skating skill and that is higher than any of those Mens medalists at Vancouver. Yes, Yu-na is great skater but I don't know why judges have to do that much....

alyssa wrote:

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I really don't like how this new system is being applied, rewarding rather mediocre interpretation. Kim's 007 plays on flirty/seductive movements and is in my view, not Art.

Haha, o wow. Isn't it enough that 'art' of skating involves excellence in expression, in Yuna's case, the seductive/enchanting/bad girl image of a Bond Girl? But you're right, we should just not allow skaters to express anything other than more 'artistic' interpretations, how dare skaters flirt on ice, or dance hip hop as in Daisuke Takahashi's case some time ago!

Sorry, but no one said she can't look like a bond girl, it's just that she's been receiving too much credit for it. Takahashi got points for his skating technique, not for looking attractive, or seductive, or whatever. Also, the best he got with his hip hop was only 10 points mcore than Yuna did yesterday (88 at 2008 4CC). So, I guess you're overreacting about this issue.

Yes, I think you've addressed the core of the issue, alyssa. It's definitely not about limiting the artistic freedom and expression of each of the skaters. After all, the fun of watching figure-skating comes from seeing the wide variety of skating styles and music choices that each athlete contributes to the competition.

It's the fact that Yu-Na's 'Bond Girl' program seems to have been singled out for special praise and credit where it justifiably has no reason to be.

There is no denying that Yu-Na is a great skater. But does that necessarily mean she is in a league of her own? Is her Bond program so innovative, so original, so unprecedented as to justify all the fanfare it has been receiving?

Because it seems to me that, style-wise, there are many parallels to be drawn between the Yu-Na's Bond SP and Rachael Flatt's jazz-inspired program.

Both programs are fun, sexy, youthful with just the right amount of maturity to add sophistication.

On the other hand, what Mao brings to the field in her 'Masquerade' SP harks back to the more traditional, more familiar era of figure-skating. Where the music was very much about the grandiose and the choreography grace and elegance.

Much like Yu-Na's 'Piano Concerto in F Major' LP. And the Scheherezade LP from her previous season.

Where is all this leading to?, perhaps some are wondering.

Well, to this, actually: Mao and Yu-Na have different skating styles. There is no point in arguing whose style is better, because there are only going to be as many different answers as there are opinions out there. It is perhaps more reasonable to say that both skating styles are equally as good, in their own, unique way.

Which means that, in the case where both skaters complete their programs cleanly, the scores should have only been within a point or two of each other.

Which was clearly not the case here.

And therein lies the problem.

this is a journal entry from livejournal. I think that it sums up the distinctions between the two programs. Credit to rlazok for writing this.


I just finished watching the figure skating single women's short program. I think Mao Asada should have placed ahead of Kim, and I'll tell you why. Figure skating ability being equal (since I know nothing about these things), I thought Asada's was the better artistic program. Her movement was beautiful. She was very 素直.

More than that, her choreography was great. Her jumps landed exactly with impacts in the score. Further, she kept the piece of music intact. She trusted that the piece in and of itself was enough, that the composer had included everything that was needed in the construction of a good piece of music, instead of slicing and dicing the music as so many people do. This meant that the short program stayed to one theme, as it should, as it is a *short* program.

Her costume was sort of circus-like, but it matched the pomp and march-like music. She even got the crowd clapping without invocation. Kim on the other hand, cut-up the music, trying for a 007 theme that came off campy to me. It was cliche all the way around. When Kim came to the final rousing, well-known melody, the crowd wasn't as revved as Mao had naturally created by using the natural flow of a piece.

So why did Kim get the points? I can see how one might consider her more of an actress. She had more flare, flash, and character, but who says that's better? It's a matter of cultural opinion. Kim did one move where she brought her hand up her leg in a very sexy way into a gun pose. No teenager in Japan would ever do that pose unless she wanted to be pregnant and thrown out of the house by thirteen. It's just not done here and considered rude or ostentatious. The norms are just different. I said earlier that Mao was 素直. This means poised, calm, but also acquiescent and obedient. It means being posed, being an adult. These are traits highly prized in Japan, but apparently, not all over the world.

So, I'll say it again. I thought Mao should have gotten the higher points because in a holistic way her program was tied together in a simple, effective way. She didn't need anything flashy or overdone to get her skills across.

Having said that, I'd like to point out some other Olympic thoughts. First, I feel sorry for the Japanese athletes. They feel so much pressure from their countrymen that I can't imagine any of them enjoy their sport anymore. Furthermore, it's a pressure without support. There is certainly no monetary support, but I also don't get a sense of national pride from the people around me. They want to win, but they want to do it by squeezing as hard as they can instead of hugging and patting on the back. Most Japanese Olympians are only supported by the small group of people around them, coaches and family, as well as a couple of izakaya owners in their neighborhood and the local practice facility workers.

Second, it's gotta irk Japan just a little when they see that Mao's coaches are all foreigners. You don't get to a Japanese coach until the 3rd ranking girl. Add to that the fact that the American is a nisei (second generation Japanese). This is a concept they really can't understand. I was watching an interview of the Japanese ice dancing couple. They asked the questions in Japanese, but after the obligatory lines, the girl switched to English. Her English was quite good and natural... too natural to be Japanese. The male partner was obviously a little embarrassed and wanted to say more obligatory no-meaning Japanese things, but he didn't have the time.

What does this say to the Japanese audience or to the rest of the world for that matter? You are representing your country at the Olympics, but it's like the Olympics are saying you've gotta be American to win. I'm all for America. I love the fact that we are a mixed culture, and I think that's our greatest asset. I think we've gotta keep pushing that point if we want to move forward. There aren't many places in the world where so many different kinds of people can get along together without fighting. But why, in the end, do the Olympics have to boil down to economics as well? Sad.. sad...

I always imagined a woman approaching the 80 mark with something remarkable like a 3A-3T ou even a quad (I don't even know if they're allowed to do it in the SP lol), but not with 3Lz-3T, which does not have an espectacular base value (10). Mao did 3F-3Lo (10.5) in the past, Miki still does 3Lz-3Lo (11), which are even higher than 3Lz-3T, and never got even 70 when landed them perfectly. Although this olympics most ladies preferred to play it safe *sigh*.

Jirachiness, simply wonderful text you found. This the world we're living in. A world in which one needs to always look sexy to be successful or even to be considered normal. lol

I think it's also a difference in preference. The Russians and Europeans, and Japan prefer Mao's more traditional balletic style of skating over Yuna's more dramatic flair, while North Americans prefer Yuna's style. The other countries also value technical difficulty of jumps more. For this reason, I'm kinda glad the next Olympics is held in Sochi .

aoi88 wrote:

I think it's also a difference in preference. The Russians and Europeans, and Japan prefer Mao's more traditional balletic style of skating over Yuna's more dramatic flair, while North Americans prefer Yuna's style. The other countries also value technical difficulty of jumps more. For this reason, I'm kinda glad the next Olympics is held in Sochi .

Absolutely , Russian and European style- classic, balletic style. American- more pop and sexy. As I don't like pop style, I prefer classic style. I love Yuna, but her short program Bond isn't my favorite this year. I like her LP much more. Mao is by any means the best ballerina on ice

Like so many of you, I was crying last night - during the 2nd half of Mao's SP. I felt as nervous as she was during the 1st half.

Seeing these pictures this morning makes me tear up again. Thank you Mao... :__)

kirakira wrote:

daylife picture links

Hey guys, just be positive!

It's the first time that Mao skated a perfectly clean short program in this season. This year it was her weak point. And what's even more important, she skated it perfectly in the Olympics, not just in a GP or Nationals. It's the Olympics, it's Vancouver that she has been waiting for years, and now she was able to skate perfectly! That was her dream. We should have to be happy now, no matter how high Kim's scores are. I agree with you that Mao's scores should have been higher or Kim's lower, but we can't change the scoring system, we can't change the results, so please, just be happy!

And I do think Mao's free program is the best in the world. She's going to skate after Kim, so everyone can see the difference between the two coreographies. Kim's free program is good, but nothing special (I think). No new jumps, no new spiral, no new spins. But "The Bells" is full of power, and if Mao can do a perfectly clean program, she can win the free skate. I don't say she can win the gold medal, because we know that Kim will get 68-70 points while Mao just 60-62, as usual. But an Olympic silver medal is wonderful too! Standing on the Olympic podium is maybe like winning the world championships. It's the most important competition in an athlete's life.

And please remember that 2 or 3 months ago she was in such a poor condition that we had to fear she can't go to the Games. Do you remember? 51 points in Moscow. And now: 73.78!!! It's fantastic!

There's a Hungarian word that says perfectly everything I want on Thursday: lekorcsolyázni. It's meaning: someone skates so perfectly that everyone else looks nothing next to her. I think that's what Mao did in the 2008 GPF. Yes, we know that Kim will win this competition, but Mao has the chance to show herself to the world in the free skate.

I'm very hapopy with the top three. What a outstanding performances! Ladies did much better in the short then the men

sofia wrote:

Hey guys, just be positive!

It's the first time that Mao skated a perfectly clean short program in this season. This year it was her weak point. And what's even more important, she skated it perfectly in the Olympics, not just in a GP or Nationals. It's the Olympics, it's Vancouver that she has been waiting for years, and now she was able to skate perfectly! That was her dream. We should have to be happy now, no matter how high Kim's scores are. I agree with you that Mao's scores should have been higher or Kim's lower, but we can't change the scoring system, we can't change the results, so please, just be happy!

And I do think Mao's free program is the best in the world. She's going to skate after Kim, so everyone can see the difference between the two coreographies. Kim's free program is good, but nothing special (I think). No new jumps, no new spiral, no new spins. But "The Bells" is full of power, and if Mao can do a perfectly clean program, she can win the free skate. I don't say she can win the gold medal, because we know that Kim will get 68-70 points while Mao just 60-62, as usual. But an Olympic silver medal is wonderful too! Standing on the Olympic podium is maybe like winning the world championships. It's the most important competition in an athlete's life.

And please remember that 2 or 3 months ago she was in such a poor condition that we had to fear she can't go to the Games. Do you remember? 51 points in Moscow. And now: 73.78!!! It's fantastic!

There's a Hungarian word that says perfectly everything I want on Thursday: lekorcsolyázni. It's meaning: someone skates so perfectly that everyone else looks nothing next to her. I think that's what Mao did in the 2008 GPF. Yes, we know that Kim will win this competition, but Mao has the chance to show herself to the world in the free skate.

[b]


That is what I am afraid of. Yuna Kim will still win regardless of how wonderful Mao-chan is. It breaks my heart that despite all her efforts, she still doesn't get the gold. But I am hanging in there until the end. 4.72 points might be a lot to catch up on, but the ice is slippery...

jirachiness wrote:

sofia wrote:

Hey guys, just be positive!

It's the first time that Mao skated a perfectly clean short program in this season. This year it was her weak point. And what's even more important, she skated it perfectly in the Olympics, not just in a GP or Nationals. It's the Olympics, it's Vancouver that she has been waiting for years, and now she was able to skate perfectly! That was her dream. We should have to be happy now, no matter how high Kim's scores are. I agree with you that Mao's scores should have been higher or Kim's lower, but we can't change the scoring system, we can't change the results, so please, just be happy!

And I do think Mao's free program is the best in the world. She's going to skate after Kim, so everyone can see the difference between the two coreographies. Kim's free program is good, but nothing special (I think). No new jumps, no new spiral, no new spins. But "The Bells" is full of power, and if Mao can do a perfectly clean program, she can win the free skate. I don't say she can win the gold medal, because we know that Kim will get 68-70 points while Mao just 60-62, as usual. But an Olympic silver medal is wonderful too! Standing on the Olympic podium is maybe like winning the world championships. It's the most important competition in an athlete's life.

And please remember that 2 or 3 months ago she was in such a poor condition that we had to fear she can't go to the Games. Do you remember? 51 points in Moscow. And now: 73.78!!! It's fantastic!

There's a Hungarian word that says perfectly everything I want on Thursday: lekorcsolyázni. It's meaning: someone skates so perfectly that everyone else looks nothing next to her. I think that's what Mao did in the 2008 GPF. Yes, we know that Kim will win this competition, but Mao has the chance to show herself to the world in the free skate.

That is what I am afraid of. Yuna Kim will still win regardless of how wonderful Mao-chan is. It breaks my heart that despite all her efforts, she still doesn't get the gold. But I am hanging in there until the end. 4.72 points might be a lot to catch up on, [b]but the ice is slippery...

Yes, and the ice is slippery for Yuna Kim too. And the pressure is on her. I know she said she doesn't feel the pressure, but to be honest, I can't believe that. And in this season we've already seen her doing several mistakes in the free program.

GO MAO!!! WE LOVE YOU WHATEVER HAPPENS!

jirachiness wrote:

sofia wrote:

Hey guys, just be positive!

It's the first time that Mao skated a perfectly clean short program in this season. This year it was her weak point. And what's even more important, she skated it perfectly in the Olympics, not just in a GP or Nationals. It's the Olympics, it's Vancouver that she has been waiting for years, and now she was able to skate perfectly! That was her dream. We should have to be happy now, no matter how high Kim's scores are. I agree with you that Mao's scores should have been higher or Kim's lower, but we can't change the scoring system, we can't change the results, so please, just be happy!

And I do think Mao's free program is the best in the world. She's going to skate after Kim, so everyone can see the difference between the two coreographies. Kim's free program is good, but nothing special (I think). No new jumps, no new spiral, no new spins. But "The Bells" is full of power, and if Mao can do a perfectly clean program, she can win the free skate. I don't say she can win the gold medal, because we know that Kim will get 68-70 points while Mao just 60-62, as usual. But an Olympic silver medal is wonderful too! Standing on the Olympic podium is maybe like winning the world championships. It's the most important competition in an athlete's life.

And please remember that 2 or 3 months ago she was in such a poor condition that we had to fear she can't go to the Games. Do you remember? 51 points in Moscow. And now: 73.78!!! It's fantastic!

There's a Hungarian word that says perfectly everything I want on Thursday: lekorcsolyázni. It's meaning: someone skates so perfectly that everyone else looks nothing next to her. I think that's what Mao did in the 2008 GPF. Yes, we know that Kim will win this competition, but Mao has the chance to show herself to the world in the free skate.

[b]


That is what I am afraid of. Yuna Kim will still win regardless of how wonderful Mao-chan is. It breaks my heart that despite all her efforts, she still doesn't get the gold. But I am hanging in there until the end. 4.72 points might be a lot to catch up on, but the ice is slippery...

Yes. that's what Scott Hamilton says that 2x3A and a perfect program will not be enough to beat Kim...unless she messes up.
It broke my heart when I saw Mao answering questions to the press. When she said she was happy to be only 5 points behind (whereas it's usually 10 points) , she was about to broke in tears. Mao, you're the BEST !!!!! we love you !!!!!!

sofia wrote:

jirachiness wrote:

sofia wrote:

Hey guys, just be positive!

It's the first time that Mao skated a perfectly clean short program in this season. This year it was her weak point. And what's even more important, she skated it perfectly in the Olympics, not just in a GP or Nationals. It's the Olympics, it's Vancouver that she has been waiting for years, and now she was able to skate perfectly! That was her dream. We should have to be happy now, no matter how high Kim's scores are. I agree with you that Mao's scores should have been higher or Kim's lower, but we can't change the scoring system, we can't change the results, so please, just be happy!

And I do think Mao's free program is the best in the world. She's going to skate after Kim, so everyone can see the difference between the two coreographies. Kim's free program is good, but nothing special (I think). No new jumps, no new spiral, no new spins. But "The Bells" is full of power, and if Mao can do a perfectly clean program, she can win the free skate. I don't say she can win the gold medal, because we know that Kim will get 68-70 points while Mao just 60-62, as usual. But an Olympic silver medal is wonderful too! Standing on the Olympic podium is maybe like winning the world championships. It's the most important competition in an athlete's life.

And please remember that 2 or 3 months ago she was in such a poor condition that we had to fear she can't go to the Games. Do you remember? 51 points in Moscow. And now: 73.78!!! It's fantastic!

There's a Hungarian word that says perfectly everything I want on Thursday: lekorcsolyázni. It's meaning: someone skates so perfectly that everyone else looks nothing next to her. I think that's what Mao did in the 2008 GPF. Yes, we know that Kim will win this competition, but Mao has the chance to show herself to the world in the free skate.

That is what I am afraid of. Yuna Kim will still win regardless of how wonderful Mao-chan is. It breaks my heart that despite all her efforts, she still doesn't get the gold. But I am hanging in there until the end. 4.72 points might be a lot to catch up on, [b]but the ice is slippery...

Yes, and the ice is slippery for Yuna Kim too. And the pressure is on her. I know she said she doesn't feel the pressure, but to be honest, I can't believe that. And in this season we've already seen her doing several mistakes in the free program.

GO MAO!!! WE LOVE YOU WHATEVER HAPPENS!

So let us hang in there and cheer for Mao-chan. Regardless of everything that has happened, I simply admire her for everything that she has done for the sport, for overcoming all the hurdles that she had faced before and becoming such an amazing skater and person. This is what I would take from the Olys, the determination to face anything regardless of the result.

OMG! Thank you so much kirakira for the clip on Mao's SP. I just love Mao's performance here. It's like the time I first saw Mao skate. So carefree and that SMILE and REACTION after her skate. I just love it!

Now, I'd like to see Joannie's skate.

Yeah it's so easy to break into a huge argument right now (as some of us have already have, including myself ) but we should focus on MAO!

No one can imagine what Mao must feel right now. She was sooo happy about her SP, we could all see that. She felt that she was going to be close, even if her rival did her best. We all know that she had a chance to hit 76 and fine maybe 77, and I think Mao knew that too. Then, she posted the score that was 4.7 away from Mao. At that moment, I can't help but think that Mao had a slight disappointment. She just skated her heart out, the best she could do, and then the difference came.

Even so, Mao is seeing it in an optimistic way ("only 5 instead of 10 this time" lol). The media is now taking Mao's happiness about her performance away from her by saying Yeah you were great, but someone else was better. That is not fair, I don't want Mao to feel that at all. I don't want her to be discouraged about 3A's. She needs to know that she's doing an amazing thing. I think her support system will let her know that- Mai, Tat, Zhanna, Makino, her mom.

My mom was saying that Mao was better, for the first time ever- usually she likes the other skater. I think Mao's smile warmed up everyone today. Even though my Mom was surprised by the record being broken, I for some reason wasn't.
I think now, I'm a little immune to scores and records- they just don't seem to mean anything anymore- they just remind me about the subjectivity of the scoring system and judges being able to prop whoever they see fit.

Mao's reaction to that skate shattered every record that existed.

As Mao fans, we all love her for who she is. I'm cheering for her no matter what the podium position is and I think many others will too (she really showed everyone in the World her joyful heart). It's hard not to worry about scores and rivalry and all that but remember that it's her first Olympics! I'm so happy that she came this far! I wish that she shows the same passion and fire during the LP and performs the best LP of her career on Thursday!

I won't say anything more about other skaters, just hope perfect FS from Mao in
Olympics because it will be a legend. Though she cannot be a champion, it will be
system's flaw which ISU should think more. Pluchenko and Mao are robbed by
their system.