US Nationals 2013

shar wrote:

Christina Zhang just did a beautiful performance, she landed EVERY jump, and the judges better give her a high score.

Wait... not Caroline Zhang?

I see boooing in my feed. Looks like she got screwed again?

roma wrote:

shar wrote:

Christina Zhang just did a beautiful performance, she landed EVERY jump, and the judges better give her a high score.

Wait... not Caroline Zhang?

I see boooing in my feed. Looks like she got screwed again?

Opps, thanks for catching that mistake., and yes, she got totally screwed.

Gracie Gold just scored 132.49

It seems Gracie finally skated clean: 132.49 with 71 for TES.
Thats got to be a 7 triple FS, right?

roma wrote:

It seems Gracie finally skated clean: 132.49 with 71 for TES.
Thats got to be a 7 triple FS, right?

Yes, and her jumps were beautiful, high and fully rotated.

the next skater Samantha was also clean, what amazing performances, this getting really exciting...

roma wrote:

It seems Gracie finally skated clean: 132.49 with 71 for TES.
Thats got to be a 7 triple FS, right?

YESSSSSS!!!!!!!

First Liza, then Gracie! This has been a day of amazing skating!

Almost everyone is clean or looks clean!

Agnes scored 114 for a 179 total. Shes behind Gracie Gold. Ashley's on now, then Mirai's going last.

Ashley just fell twice.

Hr score is 121.27 for over 188 total. She's in first.

Mirai is on now, so far one mistake. She doesn't look happy. Her score is 109.36 for a total score of 173. Shes in 7th.

that's it. this sport is effin rigged.

mirai was soo screwed after that score I really want to see the protocols I was hoping mirai would win

And Ashley's in 1st, followed by Gracie, and Agnes is third.

I feel so bad for Mirai, I wanted to cry with her. First Caroline, then Mirai? I think the judges don't want to see too many Asian/Asian Americans dominating this sport. I mean, why else are they underscoring their clean/almost clean programs. I don't get it.

If only Gracie didn't screw up in the SP...
My heart goes out to Mirai and Caroline. How many mistakes did Mirai make? Only one?

Ladies' Protocols: http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2013/68390/SEGM002.html

If yesterday they showered Caroline with URs and DGs, today it's Mirai's turn. Protocols shows she only did two triples clean.

I feel so heartbroken for Mirai, and I just don't understand Wagner's scores with those errors. What a bizarre Nationals...

I hope the men do a better job tomorrow then they did yesterday. If anyone wants to watch their competition, it will start tomorrow from 3-6 pm EST on NBC.

Maybe I should wait until the videos are out, but, don't know what to say about such result...oh Mirai

I'm too sad right now. Congratulations to the winners though. Will post again after gathering my thoughts and getting a good sleep...

For all those as ticked off as I am about this.... read.

http://www.flutzingaround.com/2013/01/nationals-inflation-was-it-in-full.html

I missed watching the competition live, but I read all your thoughts and...whoa! There
seems to be some consipiracy behind US ladies. I think alot of us thought something was going on when we saw how they scored Caroline Z's SP into bits, and now after FP...it clearly shows who the judges wanted and did not wanted on the podiom quite obviously.

The US Fed of course knew from the start that Ashley wasn't in great condition due to her hip, but still they wanted to send her to Worlds no matter what, so they just HAD TO make her win this one.

The worst part is...according to the current CoP system, they probabaly can do things like this without violating the rules.
That's why I keep saying this system sucks!
I hate to have to bring this up again, but as noted by Tony in the link Alokya provided; "This total segment score is just about as criminal as Mao Asada's three-triple free skate at NHK Trophy in my book."...If Mao's win in NHK was fair, Ashley too won fair and square this time as well according to the system. The judges aren't really 'scoring' anyone IMO, they're 'choosing' who the winner should be from the start in alot of cases. And this brilliant CoP system which is supposed to be much clearer and fair compared to the 6.0 system, allows them to do so.

Even if Ashley has some falls, the judges can always argue that those jumps had good quality overall and thus not give too many -GOEs. They can hand out huge +GOEs in other elements to cover the scores she lost from falling as well. Good spins, good steps, good interpretation, good choreography, good whatever!

No matter what they or anyone else should say, falling in a performance is THE most worst mistake which a skater can make. Falling totally distracts the viewers from the world which the skaters are trying to lead them into. Fallings takes us back automatically into reality from a fantasy on the ice. No matter how well a skater does up until a fall, once he/she falls, the viewers will be pushed into a mental state of worrying instead of enjoying the further performance. In a ntushell, falling ruins alot in a performance and in some cases it can ruin almost everything. I think they should higher the deductions for falls, so the skaters would have to pay for it even if the judges decide not to give them much -GOEs. If it were up to me, I'd set -3 deduction for a full fall, -2 deduction for a two hand fall, -1 deduction for a one hand fall. The automatic deductions have to be stricter, otherwise we're going to have a handfull of performances with falls being placed higher than ones which merely has some URs or edge calls. I mean, c'mon! Do URs and edge differences really bother you that much as falls do? I'm almost completely sure that for eveyone, falls distract you from enjoying a performance much much more than URs, wrong edges or even DGs. Plus falling is the most obvious mistake anyone who can make out even if they know nothing about the sport. It's that fatal for a performance and should be treated accordingly. In that way, it'll become more easier for the audience to make out which performance was better than the other, and I think only just that would be enough to make people become more satisfied with the results, and it'll most likely increase the popularity of this seemingly complicated sport which tends to frustrate the audience with mysterious scorings based more on mistakes which aren't that visible.

Minoru Sano, a present commentator of the sport and the first Jpnse single male skater who medalled in Worlds once said clearly 'They should not let the skaters who fell win (in a competition)'. ITA with his words, and as generic as this may sound, the fact is that the judges ARE letting skaters who fell alot win over those who did not in many cases.

I watched Ashley's FP while I was writing this, and if the other girls skated their FPs visibly clean to say the least, I cannot imagine how the judges dare place her FP above them (except for Gracie). As most of you know by now, I basically like Ashley and her skating even if I'm minority here. I'm guessing from what I saw that she DID skate neatly and well more than most of the other girls, but those 2 falls should've cost her much more than they did. The judges in this competition made Caroline Z pay way too much for her assumed URd and DGd jumps, but not that much for Ashley's falls. I do not find that fair in any sense, and if the current system allows it to be that way, the rules are unjust.

Btw, I saw Gracie's FP too and that was one job well done! When she's not pressured too much, I'm beginning to see that she can skate like this. Her body movements are still a bit stiff; I'd like to see more flexibility and a stronger link to the music on the whole, but I'm glad that the judges at least placed her above Ashley for FP. But I'm not sure if it'll be such a good idea to send Gracie to Worlds if the US Fed is intending to do so...Gracie is gifted and promising, but she's too weak when it comes to nerves and she needs more experience in Intl competitions. Well, anyway...I'm curious to know who the US Fed will choose to send to Worlds. They're going to have to gamble on this one to figure out who can get them 3 spots for Olys!

Pochi, the one exception to "if you fall you shouldn't win" rule was Yuzuru during the 2012 worlds. He fell due to stupidity, really, and then came back with a freaking AWESOME 3A. I think in some cases you really can capture the momentum back with just one fall as long as you stay confident and really keep in character with the music. However, this particular Ashley program was so uninspired...

Alokya wrote:

Pochi, the one exception to "if you fall you shouldn't win" rule was Yuzuru during the 2012 worlds. He fell due to stupidity, really, and then came back with a freaking AWESOME 3A. I think in some cases you really can capture the momentum back with just one fall as long as you stay confident and really keep in character with the music. However, this particular Ashley program was so uninspired...

I agree with you...one fall may be okay. But that's according to how you recover from it and handle the rest of the program, plus if other top skaters have falls as well. I think that was the case with Yuzu and Mao when she won her first World title with that fall upon entering her 3A. But they did super great in their other jumps and the way they recovered moved the audience alot. I admit those types of falls are exceptional.

However, sadly there are people who are getting pretty upset in Jpn, everytime Yuzu falls but wins over Dai overall thesedays. However fab his quads and transitions are, Yuzu has to become more consistent to prove himself better than Dai. Even though Yuzu won Nats this season, I'm guessing there are more people who still think Dai is the best male skater we have (and I'm one of them). Yuzu's programs are very CoP friendly made, which results in covering alot of his weak points. Since Dai's pros aren't as CoP friendly as Yuzu's, but he can still skate lights out, many people have problems with Yuzu winning esp when he has even one fall. The way he fell and recovered showing so much passion and guts were moving before, but recently the way most fans see it has started to change in Jpn. It's pissing off so many Dai fans, and things are getting ugly. I think a skater can fall once, make a remarkable recovery and win once or twice, but if it keeps going on more than that, fans will start questioning whether it's fair or not. But at least Yuzu didn't fall running out of stamina like he tends to at Nats, so I'm basically okay with his victory.

Still...I think the judges at Jpn Nats were a bit easy on Yuzu. He skated his FP more or less clean but that was all there was to it, while Dai skated his FP as if it was the performance of a lifetime. I felt it was like that when I saw it on tv, and some people I know who were actually in the audience told us that Dai was the one who really delivered that night. The results for that competiton aroused a huge disrespectful war amongst Dai and Yuzu fans already, if Yuzu fell on his second quad (which he almost did) but still won (which I'm quite sure would've have been the case when comparing the 5 point score gap between the two), all hell might've broken out amongst the audience. Yuzu was slower than usual, very much out of breath skating that FP, it's a miracle he made it through without falling, I give credit to that. But if he had fallen just once and won anyway, the audience would've acted like they had when they found out Mao won NHK I assume. And I simply hate it when the judges let the skaters win under such circumstances, whoever the skater may be.

Two falls and a score of 121+? Ok, whatever...

I have a question for those who watched the competition: how did the audience react to Ashley's win ?

Do you think that if Ashley had skated last, the judges would place her in 2nd with this performance, since this would mean she's safealy on the world team?

I actually agree with USFSA if they'll choose Gracie for the world team, international judges don't like Agnes and she always implodes anyway. Yes Gracie has a bit of a problem with her nerves (thank you for that USFSA), but I think she'll learn to deal with them once she gets more international experience. and since she's not going to 4CC and /or worlds as a National champion, the pressure will be on Ashley instead.

I think this was Ashley's last national title.

I'm gutted for Mirai, did she deserve such harsh treatment?

I think this will be Ashley's last National title, too, unless she steps up more. The younger girls are hungry for a spot. I just feel bad for Mirai and Caroline the way they were dumped in front of everyone.