US Nationals 2013

Star85 wrote:

Mao_Asada_sunrise wrote:

chapis wrote:

I want to cry for Caroline and Mirai, they were incredible, and Caroline is obvious she has worked a lot, she is not slow, and she is very expresive , but I am glad that the us have so many good female figure skaters. though I am not agree with the nats results .

I just watched Mirai's FS. I saw her ranking and score first, and I thought,"She must have fallen, barely completed any jumps, etc." However, she didn't even fall. I don't know much about figure skating, but I do pity her because I felt like she was really put down score-wise. This is one of those times that I miss having the 6.0 system. Wasn't this former system beneficial for skaters who didn't fall? Yes? No?

Yes, the 6.0 system was more beneficial to skaters who didn't fall and skated a program that was clean and pleasant to the AUDIENCE. I know one of big the reasons the 6.0 system was replaced was because they wanted the SP to count for more. This is very understandable. However, I still don't know if there is a perfect balance between how SP and LP are factored into an overall score. I can't really figure out a better way to do it than how they do it right now - judging every individual element, etc. - but the way the overall standings have been turning out (especially lately) have been making me more and more frustrated.

I'm tired of seeing someone do great in the SP, and bomb in the LP, yet win the whole thing. And vise versa when someone bombs in the SP and does great in the LP, but doesn't win, or come in what would seem like the appropriate place. It feels like the SP is almost more important that the LP not just some of the time, but a LOT of the time. I know it's about all the individual elements, and not the program as a
whole, but it just feels wrong when an when things go down like this. As far as this goes, the old system did leave the viewers feeling more satisfied - which does count for a lot. People are getting fed up, and pissed.

Speaking of the audience, I do miss those days when I just enjoyed watching Michelle Kwan skating. I know this seems irrelevant, but I remember some of her jumps were wobbly. Yet, she won a specific competition because, my gosh, the way she skated just brought the audience to their feet. I'm just reminded of how Sasha Cohen once said that before, she used to just spin (which she's great in. I mean, her flexibility is wow!), but now, she has to count how many spins. It's so technical....... Well, I admire these skaters in persevering despite the circumstances. I do hope Mirai gets uplifted. She's the first alternate for 4CC, so... you never know.

COHK wrote:

[I'm not defending Ashley here...like PochinkoPotanko, I used to like her, until USFSA decided to promote her suddenly last season. And by not attending 4CC, she has one less chance to try out the 3-3/2A-3T jumps she's been claiming to do since the beginning of the season. Without these jumping passes, I think it will not be easy for her to get on the podium at world this year.]

I agree...Ashley lost a precious opportunity to try out her 3-3/2A-3T now that she's not entering 4CC. I feel sorry she had/has health problems, but the way they're treating her is starting to turn me off about her too. I was really happy for her at first when she overcame her weaknesses; lack of stamina, shaky queer jumps, no confidence...but I do not think she's proven herself enough yet as to be treated like a skater on a totally different plane compared to the other US girls.

roma wrote:

ddmm wrote:

Here is Mirai and Ashley's reactions when Mirai's score came out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTPaiGuMTM8

My heart goes to Mirai. She didn't deserved this. Her FP wasn't bad at all despite her not feeling well that day.

Thanks for the video, ddmm. When I saw a pic of that on Twitter I felt bad. Seeing this vid, it looks different from what I've read in other posts on twitter. Looks like she was talking to someone and smiling about something else. The sigh of relief looks like it stems from the event having ended finally and holding on to her position. She wasn't smirking at Mirai's score or placement. At least now it's clarified.

While I'm not totally sure is she was smirking or not, I wouldn't judge her in anyway from this video. I actually think shooting the skaters backstage while waiting for an opponent's scores to come out is not necessary. It'll arouse lots of bad rumors concerning a skater's personality, even if he/she did no wrong. We never know who they were talking to or about what. With that said, I think the skaters should really be careful about what impressions they might give to viewers even when they're off the rink. They must be aware that some camera is following them around. They should learn something from how Dai reacted backstage when Yuzu won Jpn Nats. He smiled, clapped and congradulated Yuzu right away, and refrained from showing any sign of disappointment. That's one of the reasons you never hear anyone question Dai's attitude or personality (at least in places outside Jpnse net sites; nowadays you have Yuzu fans bashing Dai as a response to Dai fans bashing Yuzu in Jpn...*sigh*).

Star85 wrote:

If there was any doubt before this weekend, there is not now that Gracie is the next golden girl (no pun intended) for the US. She is not my one of my favorite skaters at this point, but I do think she is very good, and should be able to be a considerable threat internationally before too long. She has big jumps, something about her skating tells me she's probably pretty consistent (knock on wood), she has a good look, she's got a good story, and she's obviously got the perfect name. Anyone else think Gracie and Katelyn Osmond have a lot in common? Between the good new Sr. skaters, I prefer Christina. She's more than big jump fireworks. But it looks like US has already chosen their favorite. Christina's going to have to fight harder. She's not going to have anything handed to her.

I totally agree that next golden girl for the US will most likely be Gracie. But in terms of artistry and flexibility, Kaetlyn is seeminly a step ahead of her. I wrote 'seemingly' because it turns out that Kaetlyn has been skating the same pros not just for this season but for quite sometime now. I'm not sure how good she'll do given totally new pros to skate to. Otoh, Gracie to my eyes has enough techs as Kaetlyn, but her SP this season does not fit her at all. I think she can do much better, like Kaetlyn in her SP if given a pro which matches her charms and personality. Her FP is much better in that sense, but I still think there are other types of music which could bring out the best in Gracie. In Kaetlyn's case I think it's the other way around; her SP fits her great, while her FP is...hmmm?

I've actually felt that there are lots of talented up-coming girls in US singles this time after seeing the FP competition rerun on Jpnse pay tv this afternoon. The question is, are the US Fed willing to credit and encourage them for what they've achieved and accomplished fairly? To be honest I can understand them wanting to send Ashley to Worlds no matter what in order to have the best chance of getting as many spots as possible for Olys. Ashley already had a history of being highly scored during GPS and Finals this season, and so she's just about the only one they can be sure of ranking high in an Intl competition (if she skates clean). I do not think the judges would've scored ladies singles in the way they did unless this wasn't pre-Olys season. But even though I can understand it, I'm not saying it's fair. Scoring a skater which frustrates the audience as much as making them boo that loud (Mirai's case) must have something wrong in it, and it simply won't do any good to make the sport more popular. Who would want to see a sport which makes you feel so bad in the end? Only very few people like us who care about the skaters and love seeing them perform no matter how the scores and ranking should end up, but this competition has upset even such fans as well.

Star85 wrote:

I'm tired of seeing someone do great in the SP, and bomb in the LP, yet win the whole thing. And vise versa when someone bombs in the SP and does great in the LP, but doesn't win, or come in what would seem like the appropriate place. It feels like the SP is almost more important that the LP not just some of the time, but a LOT of the time. I know it's about all the individual elements, and not the program as a
whole, but it just feels wrong when an when things go down like this. As far as this goes, the old system did leave the viewers feeling more satisfied - which does count for a lot. People are getting fed up, and pissed.

Me too! I'm sick of SP leads covering mistakes in FP leading a skater to win over another who gave a faultless skate in FP. Sure SP is important too, but anyone can tell that it's harder to skate an FP cleaner than an SP; you don't need as much stamina as you need in an FP cause it's simply much shorter! Of course more people will be more satisfied and convinced with a skater who skated their FP close to perfect than another who did the same in SP on the top of the podium. That's how it should be. I think they reward the skaters too much in SP thesedays. Giving them a bonus for jumps in the latter half of an SP is totally unnecessary if you were to ask me. I almost have no doubts that they made that rule just to boost the scores, in order to make news like whoever breaks world record! There's no actual record-breaking in this sport as they keep on changing the rules every season. ISU knows that more than anyone, but they shout 'New Record!' outloud just so some people may notice at last that there is such a sport called figure skating.

It doesn't matter if that can happen according to the rules. Seeing a skater do fairly or extremely good in SP, followed by a poor FP but still winning makes the audience question whether the entire competition was fair or not. It's too confusing for those who do not know the sport that well, and it's causes alot of stress amongst those who who know the sport and cares about it. The system isn't working for the benefit of the skaters nor the sport. I think we've seen enough in US Nats to have to admit that once and for all.

Well, Ashley's aware of all the criticisms she got at Nationals seeing this tweet from her:
https://twitter.com/AshWagner2010/status/296395509470490624

Quote :

Wow, people can be really mean. It wasn't my dream program..trust me I'm aware, but u can't understand how it feels til ur out there urself

roma wrote:

Well, Ashley's aware of all the criticisms she got at Nationals seeing this tweet from her:
https://twitter.com/AshWagner2010/status/296395509470490624

Quote :

Wow, people can be really mean. It wasn't my dream program..trust me I'm aware, but u can't understand how it feels til ur out there urself

Has anyone received feedback from Mirai? We already know how she feels, but any official statement, even something like Ashley's tweet?

She only tweeted these:

Quote :

So grateful to everyone who supported me last night:) thank you.

Quote :

And congrats to everyone #Omaha2013

I'm not sure if there were interviews.

roma wrote:

Well, Ashley's aware of all the criticisms she got at Nationals seeing this tweet from her:
https://twitter.com/AshWagner2010/status/296395509470490624

Quote :

Wow, people can be really mean. It wasn't my dream program..trust me I'm aware, but u can't understand how it feels til ur out there urself

ashley really needs pr help. defensive tweets can take her in the wrong direction. who is her pr manager?

roma wrote:

Well, Ashley's aware of all the criticisms she got at Nationals seeing this tweet from her:
https://twitter.com/AshWagner2010/status/296395509470490624

Quote :

Wow, people can be really mean. It wasn't my dream program..trust me I'm aware, but u can't understand how it feels til ur out there urself

Yes, I'm friends with her on FB. I saw this post. Hm. Well I can understand how it must hurt to read so many negative things about you, whether they are justified or not. At first, I thought she should have expected this type of thing this time, and therefore, should have tried to stay away from social media, forums, and comments for a little while. But then again, I guess it would be pretty hard to steer clear of any sites that might have any comments on them even if you try...

Star85 wrote:

roma wrote:

Well, Ashley's aware of all the criticisms she got at Nationals seeing this tweet from her:
https://twitter.com/AshWagner2010/status/296395509470490624

Quote :

Wow, people can be really mean. It wasn't my dream program..trust me I'm aware, but u can't understand how it feels til ur out there urself

Yes, I'm friends with her on FB. I saw this post. Hm. Well I can understand how it must hurt to read so many negative things about you, whether they are justified or not. At first, I thought she should have expected this type of thing this time, and therefore, should have tried to stay away from social media, forums, and comments for a little while. But then again, I guess it would be pretty hard to steer clear of any sites that might have any comments on them even if you try...

I'm friends with her too on FB...haven't checked her post yet but I do feel sorry for her in advance. But these things are one of the negative stuff you have to deal with when you're one of the top skaters. There will always be people who criticize your victory; even if she didn't have 2 falls, I'm pretty sure lots of people would've criticized her all the same. But she shouldn't let them bother her so much as it wasn't her who did the judging. I think anyone is entitled to criticize a performance or the scores they recieve. But they should stick to criticizing the judges, not the skaters.

But I guess this time it's not just her scores and rankings people are bashing. Alot of it must be about the way she reacted backstage. A mere grin is enough for some people to judge a skater's personality as evil. I'm really against the way they show how the skaters are reacting backstage. You never know to whom and what they were talking about, so it doesn't prove anything, but it'll only arouse doubts and misunderstandings. I don't think they should let the skaters go through all that.

Still, I'd really like to ask Ashley what kind of reaction from the viewers she expected after winning like that? People can be mean, yes. But she should understand and accept the fact that most of them won't be mean without a reason. What the audience felt is as important as how the judges score a skater. She's a performer, not only an athlete. IMHO, she never should've said 'but u can't understand how it feels til ur out there urself', because the thing is, the audience does not have to understand how that feels. I think this comment of hers is a bit similar to what Fumie said on tv which made alot of skating fans turn their backs on her; 'Fans should study the rules more before saying their opinions out loud' (not direct translation, something like that). Those are the kinds of comments which makes you want to think twice before you decide to go on supporting the skater who said them. It's like saying 'I'll appreciate all your praisings and blessings, but other than that shut up cause you guys know nothing about what it's like to be a skater!'. I never thought less of Ashley because I didn't have any reason to, but this comment was really disappointing to me.

Ashley again -

http://espn.go.com/espnw/mobile/touch/blog/post/3172/it-was-stressful-came-top

So, this is basically trying to justify what happened. I do feel bad for her for the food poisoning thing. But at some point, if you're a professional, you don't try to defend yourself. You work hard to prove that your haters are wrong. That isn't what she is doing here. Also, here it is saying that she has a knee problem. I thought it was a hip problem?

Alokya wrote:

Ashley again -

http://espn.go.com/espnw/mobile/touch/blog/post/3172/it-was-stressful-came-top

So, this is basically trying to justify what happened. I do feel bad for her for the food poisoning thing. But at some point, if you're a professional, you don't try to defend yourself. You work hard to prove that your haters are wrong. That isn't what she is doing here. Also, here it is saying that she has a knee problem. I thought it was a hip problem?

Exactly, I couldn't agree more. She isn't the first to get bashed over competition results nor the last. I guess she's one of those athletes who can't take criticism very well. Like Pochi said in one of her posts, what kind of reaction did she expect, after being gifted with the gold for a program with 2 falls and other small mistakes? Especially when you saw what the judges did to Mirai?!

I could be wrong, since I've never met Ashley, but from the start of this season, I've been getting this arrogant vibes from her. It might be just PR though... Man I can't wait to see Gracie living up to her potential, IF she'll manage to do this this season and even more importantly in the 2013 GP seaon, it's BYE BYE AShley.

I feel sorry for Ashley if her health was really a problem. I hope she recovers soon.

On the other hand, I think she has to learn that if she wants to be a top skater, she also has to face criticism and learn how to deal with it just like any other skaters (ex. Mao!) or any stars. If the negative comments are affecting her, she should stop reading them. I have the impression that Mao doesn't bother doing FB, twitter or even trying to check on other skaters and that's very smart. Yuna and Miki were also bashed by tweeting few comments in the past. Maybe Ashley can learn from that.

I liked Ashley in the past and like some of you, I was friend with her on FB. But something in her made me decide to unfriend her last year.

ddmm wrote:

I feel sorry for Ashley if her health was really a problem. I hope she recovers soon.

On the other hand, I think she has to learn that if she wants to be a top skater, she also has to face criticism and learn how to deal with it just like any other skaters (ex. Mao!) or any stars. If the negative comments are affecting her, she should stop reading them. I have the impression that Mao doesn't bother doing FB, twitter or even trying to check on other skaters and that's very smart. Yuna and Miki were also bashed by tweeting few comments in the past. Maybe Ashley can learn from that.

I liked Ashley in the past and like some of you, I was friend with her on FB. But something in her made me decide to unfriend her last year.

I hate to have to say this, but reading all her fans commenting to Ashley on FB how wonderful she really is, and that alot of people like her much more than elsewise, along with having close to 200 fans clicking 'like' for all the comments she made after US Nats...I don't think she'll learn anything new.

I'm considering taking her off my friend list too...but I'm going to wait and see till Worlds if she might change her attitude a bit, and also if she can prove herself to the World once again that she was worthy to win Nats. She doesn't have to win Worlds to prove that of course; I just need to see whether she'll do all she can to prepare for it, rather than taking so much of her time making excuses to the public about her win in Nats. I think all of us here are capable to see whether a skater performs as if his/her life depends on it by now. And that's exactly the kind of performance I need from Ashley to know she's an athlete I can respect at this point.

I wasn't quite sure which thread this belonged in, so I just decided to put it here. Remember the conspiracy theories about Caitlin Yankowskas and John Coughlin splitting up? Caitlin addressed it here. Her story is rather interesting... and very politically correct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK_AMV61lSI

Alokya wrote:

I wasn't quite sure which thread this belonged in, so I just decided to put it here. Remember the conspiracy theories about Caitlin Yankowskas and John Coughlin splitting up? Caitlin addressed it here. Her story is rather interesting... and very politically correct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK_AMV61lSI

Thanks for posting this. Now this is what I call being diplomatic. Respect.

More of that interview here. Start at around 17:20 - interesting answers about her relationship with John.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyrarCB6alA

This also shows why I love Caitlyn. She wants to portray a story on ice. That is what pairs should be about. US pairs are kind of lacking in that right now.

Can't believe this happened. 2 years ago, I watched her performance at Vancouver and hoped to see her medal in Sochi. Now it seems impossible, considering the depth of US female skating and the politics behind the judging system.
I don't know much about scoring system in skating and gymnastics, but at least under the 6.0 and 10 systems, I could enjoy a performance and intuitively agree with the scoring.