Canadian Nationals 2013

I thought I would start a thread for this as I'm interested to see how Osmond, Lacoste, the pairs, and ice dance teams from Canada place.

If anybody wants a laugh, take a look at this, the short program scores for ladies:

http://results.skatecanada.ca/2012-2013/2013CDNS/2013CDNSSrWomencatResults.pdf

Also, I saw a couple months ago that Alexe Gilles had switched to Skate Canada from the US. I know that her sister Piper is skating with a Canadian, but is there any reason why she also decided to switch that anybody knows of?

Alokya wrote:

I thought I would start a thread for this as I'm interested to see how Osmond, Lacoste, the pairs, and ice dance teams from Canada place.

If anybody wants a laugh, take a look at this, the short program scores for ladies:

http://results.skatecanada.ca/2012-2013/2013CDNS/2013CDNSSrWomencatResults.pdf

Also, I saw a couple months ago that Alexe Gilles had switched to Skate Canada from the US. I know that her sister Piper is skating with a Canadian, but is there any reason why she also decided to switch that anybody knows of?

OMG! Kaetlyn has already reached 70s! Way to go Canadian Feds!
I mean I do think she's got lots of potential, but that's like saying she's as good as Yuna!
Anyway, this is one SP of hers which I've gotta see! Hope someone uploaded a vid on YT.

Still, even though she's not really my favorite type of skater, I think it's good that Canada has a strong leading lady now...I quite liked Joannie (she's much better than she seems on tv when you see her live!), and was quite shocked she decided to retire (but did she announce that formally?). I was also looking forward to Cynthia; I thought her jumps were getting better more or less, so her retirement came as a shock to me as well.

As for Lacoste...what can I say? I feel sorry for her, since I don't think her Fed is up to supporting her much, but it's too obvious that she's not that competitive in intl level. I can't blame all those Canadians in GS or ISU discussion board being caught up with Kaetlyn, ignoring Lacoste totally.

ETA: Found her SP vid here... http://video.tsn.ca/?dl=main/vhSearch=Kaetlyn%20osmond/1/0/846912/clip/519
Yep she's speedy and powerful. But still she looks pretty sloppy in some places to my eyes...I'd say the scores they gave her here is proof that in most countrie's Nats the scorings are generous. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ashley skated clean and gets scored over 70 in US Nats now...not saying she wouldn't deserve it; I just mean I feel that the US Fed would want to score their top lady as high as they can, that's all!

Osmond's score is obviously too high: 70 for THAT program? Good jumps, yes, but she has to refine her spins (those positions in the FSSp and CCoSp were really awkward!) and to improve her SS and MITF skills: she smiled a lot and had a lot of energy, but that footwork really wasn't deserving +3 GOE, she still has to work a lot on the technique in those turns and steps (maybe a couple of lessons with Patrick could help her... ), but this is Nationals so that's ok (Kostner received 70 with 3-2 so I can accept 70 for a program with 3-3!)... Have a look at Patrick's SP (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmoYnn5rOxA), THIS is a wonderful program!!

Why can't Japan Fed be this generous? Would it kill them to overscore their skaters just a little bit? But then, at least japanese skaters aren't shocked when they receive their scores at competition, unlike those who get overscored at nats.

I wouldn't be surprised however, if we'll see Kaetlyn receiving very high scores at worlds. I don't think SC will be able to put her on the podium (they better not), but I do see her in top 6.

zarinaballerina wrote:

Why can't Japan Fed be this generous? Would it kill them to overscore their skaters just a little bit? But then, at least japanese skaters aren't shocked when they receive their scores at competition, unlike those who get overscored at nats.

I wouldn't be surprised however, if we'll see Kaetlyn receiving very high scores at worlds. I don't think SC will be able to put her on the podium (they better not), but I do see her in top 6.

True. Every fed now is doing their best to promote whoever they think will best make it at the Olys -- except Japan. Lets not mind it. At least with Japan's scoring, even though it's frustrating, we more or less have a closer idea as to how team Japan will be scored internationally.

Kaetlyn, so far, is showing consistency like Liza did last season. If she continues to skate really well at 4CC it's possible she'll get high scores at Worlds considering its in Canada. She did get better marks (PCS) than Akiko at Skate Canada last year.

Thanks for the links, Pochi and Mao2012

Kaetlyn has a nice 3t-3t and skated with confident and speed, she has a nice smile too, but I find her unrefined, maybe I like Mao's line, flexibility and elegance too much and I can't conform with nothing less (sorry if I sound like a Y...fan, comparing every skater with Y....).

I'm not a fan of Patrick Chan, but I like his SP, he looks smooth, elegant, he shows emotions, indeed I like his entire corporal expression , Jeffrey Buttle made a good work with the choreography.

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

As for Lacoste...what can I say? I feel sorry for her, since I don't think her Fed is up to supporting her much, but it's too obvious that she's not that competitive in intl level. I can't blame all those Canadians in GS or ISU discussion board being caught up with Kaetlyn, ignoring Lacoste totally.

I hope that Lacoste can take comfort from the fact that Kaetlyn going to Worlds and placing high will give her a better chance at making the Olympic and World team next year.

Well obviously the score is too high, but that was a very good program with a 3-3, though lower tier. Nationals scoring is always generous, and Canada is particularly good at that. But I do think she did perform THAT much better than the rest of the field. 32 for PCS is well deserved when compared to the other skaters in contention. Her movements might be a little unrefined, but she's got confidence, speed and attack, interesting choreo, and great presentation. I will only be angry if she receives a similar score at Worlds for the same material. Even Kostner can't score that high with a 3t-3t internationally.

Anyway, good job honey! Keep fighting!
Didn't get to see Patrick's short yet, so I'll reserve judgement... There's a 3 hour coverage tonight on CTV, for those who can get it. It starts at 7PM. I've got other plans so I'll miss it

Links to both programs:

Osmond SP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2FeNFi331yE

Chan SP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kmoYnn5rOxA

Alokya wrote:

Chan SP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kmoYnn5rOxA

Thanks!

That was good! I don't like Patrick but even I have to admit that this program is gorgeous. Pity about the combination, but LOVED the footwork going into it.

The shirt is new, right? Yuk... Frills AND lace on a man. Anyway, nice presentation, but am I the only one who keeps seeing Buttle everywhere? From the posture, to the spin positions and "style" of presentation? It's a little like when Dai had an ex choreographed by Lambiel. It was nice, but you could see Lambiel doing it, and it would have been so much better too. That's what I get while watching Patrick perform elegy... Anyway, that's just my impression. The way he stops and moves his arms and looks at the audience before doing cross-overs into an element, the combo spin at 2:30 (even the way he changes position is exactly like Jeff).

ETA: I feel like Jeff is a little too "fresh" off the competition circuit to truly detach himself while doing choreo, especially for men. I wonder what a Jeff program would look like on Mao?

chiyori wrote:

ETA: I feel like Jeff is a little too "fresh" off the competition circuit to truly detach himself while doing choreo, especially for men. I wonder what a Jeff program would look like on Mao?

Same question here!

Ken Himura wrote:

chiyori wrote:

ETA: I feel like Jeff is a little too "fresh" off the competition circuit to truly detach himself while doing choreo, especially for men. I wonder what a Jeff program would look like on Mao?

Same question here!

Haha! The thought crossed my mind while watching the Take my hand group number from SOI...

Anyway... I find the parallel between Jeff and Lambiel choreo work for men skaters interesting. Or maybe the problem comes from the fact that they're among the rare very successful single skaters, and very recently at that, who are doing choreo? A good proportion of choreographers were originally ice dancers, are much older or never had notable international exposure.

Or maybe Patrick requested a program in Jeff's style? Did Jeff choreograph for other high level men recently?

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

Alokya wrote:

I thought I would start a thread for this as I'm interested to see how Osmond, Lacoste, the pairs, and ice dance teams from Canada place.

If anybody wants a laugh, take a look at this, the short program scores for ladies:

http://results.skatecanada.ca/2012-2013/2013CDNS/2013CDNSSrWomencatResults.pdf

Also, I saw a couple months ago that Alexe Gilles had switched to Skate Canada from the US. I know that her sister Piper is skating with a Canadian, but is there any reason why she also decided to switch that anybody knows of?

OMG! Kaetlyn has already reached 70s! Way to go Canadian Feds!
I mean I do think she's got lots of potential, but that's like saying she's as good as Yuna!
Anyway, this is one SP of hers which I've gotta see! Hope someone uploaded a vid on YT.

Still, even though she's not really my favorite type of skater, I think it's good that Canada has a strong leading lady now...I quite liked Joannie (she's much better than she seems on tv when you see her live!), and was quite shocked she decided to retire (but did she announce that formally?). I was also looking forward to Cynthia; I thought her jumps were getting better more or less, so her retirement came as a shock to me as well.

As for Lacoste...what can I say? I feel sorry for her, since I don't think her Fed is up to supporting her much, but it's too obvious that she's not that competitive in intl level. I can't blame all those Canadians in GS or ISU discussion board being caught up with Kaetlyn, ignoring Lacoste totally.

ETA: Found her SP vid here... http://video.tsn.ca/?dl=main/vhSearch=Kaetlyn%20osmond/1/0/846912/clip/519
Yep she's speedy and powerful. But still she looks pretty sloppy in some places to my eyes...I'd say the scores they gave her here is proof that in most countrie's Nats the scorings are generous. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ashley skated clean and gets scored over 70 in US Nats now...not saying she wouldn't deserve it; I just mean I feel that the US Fed would want to score their top lady as high as they can, that's all!

yes, i agree with you, here! i think it's wonderful that canada has a leading lady. it's just nationals competition so there's no need to be surprised or annoyed. nationals are always inflated to the point that it's almost a requirement for nationals to be inflated so scores aren't meant to be taken seriously. it's what nationals do. as for joannie, she hasn't formally announced her retirement to my knowledge. in an october 2012 interview she talked about the possibility of returning to competition. i would really like her to come back because i quite like joannie and miss her dearly (and i quite like miss osmond, too). here is the interview (in french):

http://www.lapresse.ca/sports/autres-sports/patinage-artistique/201210/02/01-4579428-le-choix-dechirant-de-joannie-rochette.php

Alokya wrote:

Links to both programs:

Osmond SP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2FeNFi331yE

Chan SP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kmoYnn5rOxA

Thanks for the link! Pattie's SP is getting better and better!
It's was a pity about his jumps, but the rest was very well done.
I think the choreo brought out the hidden qualities in Pattie; he can skate to this type of sensitive music emotionally.
You can feel his soul in it, even without dramatic loud music like 'Phantom of~'.
I suppose he'll be doing something different next season, but I do think Pattie challenging this type of pro will do alot of good for him. He looks much more fexible and elegant than before.

I really love Jeff's talents in choreo...my personal best skate of the year for 2012 was:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iAuEqILHv8
No jumps but still my favorite! This pro really makes you understand the magic in figure skating even without jumps. I think you can see some similarities between this EX and Pattie's SP.
To me Pattie skating to Jeff's choreo didn't feel as awkward as when I saw Dai skate to Lambiel's choreo.
I guess to me it felt like Jeff offered what's been missing in Pattie's pros for a very long time.
Skating to this kind of pro is totally new to Pattie, so that may be one of the reasons he's not succeeding in his jumps as much up till last season. But if so, all the more I think highly of Pattie for trying out something new.

I'm really liking him alot now! He may be overscored again sometimes, but that's no issue for me anymore. I never trusted the judges, never will trust them totally, so I won't let their scores ruin my pleasures in watching Pattie anymore. The problem I had personally about Pattie's performances were the way he used his arms like a scarecrow when he did his steps. I can understand that since his edges are real deep, he had to use his arms like that to secure balance, but that seemed to be mess up all the beauty. But he is definitely getting better at using his arms and upper body this season, and I think he's going to aim to get more better by Olys. I'm sure he's smart enough to know his weak points which is exactly where Dai is strong. I hope too that he gets his quads back in better shape; esp his brilliant 4-3!

Result of Men's final:


Rank Competitor(s) Section SP FP Points
1 Patrick Chan CO 94.63 179.12 273.75
2 Kevin Reynolds BC/YT 85.32 175.94 261.26
3 Andrei Rogozine CO 70.42 137.43 207.85
4 Elladj Balde QC 68.47 135.97 204.44
5 Liam Firus BC/YT 75.33 127.08 202.41
6 Nam Nguyen CO 67.90 132.79 200.69

Details
http://results.skatecanada.ca/2012-2013/2013CDNS/2013CDNSSrMenFreesegJudgesDetails.pdf

Chan had a fall on a 3F
AND...Kevin Reynolds had 3 quads in his FS (actually, he had 5 quads all together in his SP+FS, and in FS, his tech scores is over 10 pts over Patrick's)

chiyori wrote:

Did Jeff choreograph for other high level men recently?

Yes, Jeff choreographed for Yuzu's SP this season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYkGYMYW69c

He also did for both of Nan Song's SP and FS, IIRC

Results of Ladie's final:

Senior Women
Rank Competitor(s) Section SP FP Points
1 Kaetlyn Osmond AB/NT/NU 70.04 131.30 201.34
2 Gabrielle Daleman CO 51.80 112.10 163.90
3 Alaine Chartrand EO 50.76 106.46 157.22
4 Amelie Lacoste QC 57.86 98.28 156.14
5 Veronik Mallet QC 48.03 95.84 143.87
6 Julianne Séguin QC 53.93 77.84 131.77

Scores:
http://results.skatecanada.ca/2012-2013/2013CDNS/2013CDNSSrWomenFreesegJudgesDetails.pdf

Champion's FS:
http://video.tsn.ca/?dl=figure_skating/latest/1/0/847437/clip/258

I guess Osmond will be attending 4CC...but not sure who else will be sent

COHK wrote:

Result of Men's final:

Details
http://results.skatecanada.ca/2012-2013/2013CDNS/2013CDNSSrMenFreesegJudgesDetails.pdf

Actually, I have a question about this protocol, re. Chan's score: he has 2 2A in his FS. I think originally the 1st 2A should be a 3A in his plan. But is it allowed to have 2 2As in the end?

Haven't seen any video yet but just saw the ladies' protocols. Thanks, COHK!

So it's possible to get +GOE on an "e" Lutz?

Saw on twitter earlier there was an error in the scores that's why Lacoste's standing dropped to 4th overall. And that the silver medalist is too young for 4CC so Lacoste may have a chance at 4CC. Canada does have 3 spots, right?

roma wrote:

Haven't seen any video yet but just saw the ladies' protocols. Thanks, COHK!

So it's possible to get +GOE on an "e" Lutz?

Saw on twitter earlier there was an error in the scores that's why Lacoste's standing dropped to 4th overall. And that the silver medalist is too young for 4CC so Lacoste may have a chance at 4CC. Canada does have 3 spots, right?

They have 3? I didn't know that...I imagined only 2...but either way, Kaetlyn is just about the only senior who's truely competitive right now.

But if Joannie hasn't officially announced retirement, she might come back in Sochi, if not for World this season? Still, in COI this season, after the show was over they were taking pictures of skaters in retired and non-retired groups. Joannie was in the former group so I assumed she had retired. I miss alot of info on who retired when since I don't make much use of twitter...didn't even know that Kimmie had retired until then, too...that was shocking, I so wanted her to come back!

Now as for GOE...roma, believe me...whatever the guidlines says about handing GOEs, the judges will use it in any way they want (esp in Nats). Although GOEs are within TES and not PCS, it's still seems to me like they're handing them out subjectively. That's why the GOEs per jump differ so much amongst the judges themselves. If they were successfully handing them out objectively, I don't think one judge would give a -GOE for a jump while another judge gives +GOE to the same jump. They'd better create a computer system which calculates the exact height and width, plus figure out whether the edge is correct and if a jump is rotated on video asap. In 10~20 years, I believe this sort of technology will become possible; that's when we'll start getting much more fair scorings. Even if it may not be completely perfect, a computer program will be much more objective than those judges.

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

roma wrote:

Haven't seen any video yet but just saw the ladies' protocols. Thanks, COHK!

So it's possible to get +GOE on an "e" Lutz?

Saw on twitter earlier there was an error in the scores that's why Lacoste's standing dropped to 4th overall. And that the silver medalist is too young for 4CC so Lacoste may have a chance at 4CC. Canada does have 3 spots, right?

They have 3? I didn't know that...I imagined only 2...but either way, Kaetlyn is just about the only senior who's truely competitive right now.

Yes, Canada has 3 in both men's and women's at 4CC (as shown in the 4cc Entry lists released yesterday). Both Gabrielle Daleman and Alaine Chartrand were attending JGP last year (for 12-13 season). So it's not for sure if they're both eligible in terms of age (or if they've both reached the min. score requirements).

[Also, it seems that Patrick will NOT be attending 4CC this year...]

As for the error in the scores between Lacoste and Chartrand is that, Chartrand's first jumping pass was in sequence, but the judges mistaken it as in combo, and thus, gave deduction in the original scoring.

Ok, what's going on with 4CC? only 24 entires in men and 23 in ladies? Not to mention pairs and ice dance. What the heck happened to all those nationalities that competed last year? Is this some kind of a joke from ISU?

COHK wrote:

[Also, it seems that Patrick will NOT be attending 4CC this year...]

To be honest I'm not surprised if he stays at home. He's already been beaten by both Dai and Yuzu this season, I doubt he wants to risk this happening again before worlds.

zarinaballerina wrote:

Ok, what's going on with 4CC? only 24 entires in men and 23 in ladies? Not to mention pairs and ice dance. What the heck happened to all those nationalities that competed last year? Is this some kind of a joke from ISU?

COHK wrote:

[Also, it seems that Patrick will NOT be attending 4CC this year...]

To be honest I'm not surprised if he stays at home. He's already been beaten by both Dai and Yuzu this season, I doubt he wants to risk this happening again before worlds.

NOOOOO! I wanted to see Pattie at 4CC!
And he does have lots of fans here in Jpn who wanted to see him live!

He would've been welcomed very warmly if he came...except for that stupid Jpnse group who calls themselves FPU(Figure Skating Protection Union) which have been saying we should all boo at Pattie's scores even while he's in KC; god, I hate those people! But nobody will listen to them anyway. People who go all their ways to buy those extremely high priced tickets for competitions in Jpn respect all the skaters and would never boo at them or at their scores even when they think it's not fair. If they had an opportunity to boo only at the judges they may do so, but while a skater is around, never!

Anyway when I went to see JO live this season, Pattie got a real big applause than I ever imagined he'd get. Unfortunately he was in bad condition so that was only before he performed though...
His and Yuna's fans in Jpn (Yuna does have fans here too, you know!) must be really disappointed about 4CC this season.

ETA: Whenever I write KC, images of fried chicken pops up into my head...

COHK wrote:

Yes, Canada has 3 in both men's and women's at 4CC (as shown in the 4cc Entry lists released yesterday). Both Gabrielle Daleman and Alaine Chartrand were attending JGP last year (for 12-13 season). So it's not for sure if they're both eligible in terms of age (or if they've both reached the min. score requirements).

[Also, it seems that Patrick will NOT be attending 4CC this year...]

As for the error in the scores between Lacoste and Chartrand is that, Chartrand's first jumping pass was in sequence, but the judges mistaken it as in combo, and thus, gave deduction in the original scoring.

Yes, I think there are no restrictions on number of entries in 4CC at all - every country gets 3 spots in every discipline. It's just not all the countries can fill all the entries with their skaters unfortunately, and now there is the minimum score too.

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

zarinaballerina wrote:

Ok, what's going on with 4CC? only 24 entires in men and 23 in ladies? Not to mention pairs and ice dance. What the heck happened to all those nationalities that competed last year? Is this some kind of a joke from ISU?

COHK wrote:

[Also, it seems that Patrick will NOT be attending 4CC this year...]

To be honest I'm not surprised if he stays at home. He's already been beaten by both Dai and Yuzu this season, I doubt he wants to risk this happening again before worlds.

NOOOOO! I wanted to see Pattie at 4CC!
And he does have lots of fans here in Jpn who wanted to see him live!

He would've been welcomed very warmly if he came...except for that stupid Jpnse group who calls themselves FPU(Figure Skating Protection Union) which have been saying we should all boo at Pattie's scores even while he's in KC; god, I hate those people! But nobody will listen to them anyway. People who go all their ways to buy those extremely high priced tickets for competitions in Jpn respect all the skaters and would never boo at them or at their scores even when they think it's not fair. If they had an opportunity to boo only at the judges they may do so, but while a skater is around, never!

Anyway when I went to see JO live this season, Pattie got a real big applause than I ever imagined he'd get. Unfortunately he was in bad condition so that was only before he performed though...
His and Yuna's fans in Jpn (Yuna does have fans here too, you know!) must be really disappointed about 4CC this season.

ETA: Whenever I write KC, images of fried chicken pops up into my head...

wow, who are these people? how disappointing! they're making japan look bad. do they post on the japanese forums? i hope that there's not a lot of them!