Other Nationals

shar wrote:

chapis wrote:

shar wrote:

And Jason Brown is officially Sochi Bound with Abott.

Mirai is appealing the decision to be left off the team.

 Really?????

She's disappointed. What's the point in doing your best and making the podium, just to have all the work, progress and win be null and void. Why not fight for your right when you feel you've earned it.

It would be great a scandal for the popularity of the sport    in US, and about the decision itself she wont get anything anyway, I hope she will decide compete for Japan now   .

shar wrote:

chapis wrote:

shar wrote:

And Jason Brown is officially Sochi Bound with Abott.

Mirai is appealing the decision to be left off the team.

 Really?????

She's disappointed. What's the point in doing your best and making the podium, just to have all the work, progress and win be null and void. Why not fight for your right when you feel you've earned it.

Hell yes! You go girl!   Why meekly accept this screw up, USFSA is sure as heck isn't going to like it, but they deserve everything they'll get. Reading comments from an article about the ladies selection...people are pissed, so Mirai at least has a public on her side.

This whole "it matters what you've done previously" is bunch of BS. if so, then why hold a national championships in first place? just take a look at the end of december at who's been doing good, select top three and be done with it.

Competing at nationals comes with a lot of pressure since your placement on the team is at stake. if you deliver that's a sign that you can take the pressure as oposed to failing under it, like wagner has done for two consequtive years. You think this was bad, you ain't seen nothing yet. just wait for Sochi, nationals will feel like a walk in the park. Honestly, sometimes I feel like USFSA is run by morons.

Go Mirai, ruffle some feathers!    

ballerinamao wrote:

I think with changing she meant going back to an old fs of hers, otherwise she will be wasting the remaining training time to relearn new choreography instead of focusing on her elements.

Yes, she'll probably go back to Black swan, but with such a short time before Sochi? she must trully be desperate. Man I hope Gracie is going to mop the floor with her.  

chapis wrote:

It would be great a scandal for the popularity of the sport      in US, and about the decision itself she wont get anything anyway, I hope she will decide compete for Japan now

I don't think she'll win it either, but she'll stir the controversy even more, and rightly so. As for her competing for Japan. japan has a very strong field, she will have to work her butt off if she wants any chance, not to mention she'll have to denounce her US citizenship and also USFSA will have to release her. They can be very bitchy when it comes to this. i know there was a skater 8i think in Ice dance) that had to sue them to release her, and even then it took alot of years. if USFSA releases her (which i doubt they will) she'll have to sit out for two years if i'm not mistaken. i know that for pairs it's one year, for singles not sure, however if USFSA refuses to release her, then I think it's even longer. USFSA can hold you for a few years, before being forced by law to release you. So mirai would loose alot if she went down this road.

zarinaballerina wrote:

[

This whole "it matters what you've done previously" is bunch of BS. if so, then why hold a national championships in first place? just take a look at the end of december at who's been doing good, select top three and be done with it.

Just imagine if Japan had two spots and Mao get the 3rd place at nationals like she did it, it would be fair to send to Kanako for only one better performance at nationals?, sorry but it is absurd, everyone can to have a fluke good performance and a good skater to have a bad day or bad competition.
And what about Daisuke, you think is unfair his spot in Sochi too?

chapis wrote:

zarinaballerina wrote:

[

This whole "it matters what you've done previously" is bunch of BS. if so, then why hold a national championships in first place? just take a look at the end of december at who's been doing good, select top three and be done with it.

Just imagine if Japan had two spots and Mao get the 3rd place at nationals like she did it, it would be fair to send to Kanako for only one better performance at nationals?, sorry but it is absurd, everyone can to have a fluke good performance and a good skater to have a bad day or bad competition.
And what about Daisuke, you think is unfair his spot in Sochi too?

yes I do, I think Oda definitely deserved the third spot based on his accomplishment at Nationals and the internationals events he attended, and I'm saying this despite me personally preferring Daisukes skating. putting Mao as an example just won't work, because it didn't happen, but even if we for pure speculation say that was the case, Mao still won all competitions she attended prior to nationals, from Japan Open, NHK, SA, GPF, not the same situation or position as the US skaters, not even close, nothing to compare there.

chapis wrote:

zarinaballerina wrote:

This whole "it matters what you've done previously" is bunch of BS. if so, then why hold a national championships in first place? just take a look at the end of december at who's been doing good, select top three and be done with it.

Just imagine if Japan had two spots and Mao get the 3rd place like she did it, it would be fair to send to Kanako for only one better performance at nationals?, sorry but it is absurd, everyone can to have a fluke good performance and a good skater to have a bad day or bad competition.
And what about Daisuke, you think is unfair his spot in Sochi too?

In my case, I'm not completely against Ashley being picked to make the team. However, I don't think that she has accomplished that much to be compared to Dai or Mao in this situation.

First, Dai qualified to go to the GPF but had to withdrew due to injury, and his condition was certainly not the best at Nationals and he was clearly struggling. He is an Olympic bronze medalist, world champion, and has plenty of medals.

As for Mao, she's had quite an exhausting season so far, going to the GPF, having problems with her back there, and then competing at Nationals just two weeks later without time to rest and heal her injury. She is a two-time world champion, Olympic silver medalist and has plenty of other medals, not to talk about the fact that she's had an impressive season so far.

Having said that, IMO it would have been unfair to leave Ashley out of the team after all these seasons of good skating. I think Polina was overscored in PCS, specially in her LP, so overall Mirai should have been second an made the team instead of Polina. After all, she's just 15 and no international experience at senior level...

chapis wrote:

zarinaballerina wrote:

[

This whole "it matters what you've done previously" is bunch of BS. if so, then why hold a national championships in first place? just take a look at the end of december at who's been doing good, select top three and be done with it.

Just imagine if Japan had two spots and Mao get the 3rd place at nationals like she did it, it would be fair to send to Kanako for only one better performance at nationals?, sorry but it is absurd, everyone can to have a fluke good performance and a good skater to have a bad day or bad competition.
And what about Daisuke, you think is unfair his spot in Sochi too?

You do have a point,however, lets bring USA situation to Japan and say they have 3 spots and the podium is:
Akiko
satoko
Kanako
Mao.

Now, would you remove Kanako who has won medals at 4CC and GP's in favour of Satoko, just so you can put Mao on the team? and this isn't even a good comparison, cause Satoko has a senior international experience. The fact is, up until now USFSA went with whomever was on the podium, unless there was a medical bye, but now they suddenly decide to change things so they can put their favourites on the team. US nats is a competition filled with pressure especially in an olympic year. if you can't handle it, tough luck.

Actually, yes I disagree with Dai being send to Sochi. However in his case, at least he's an olympic bronze medallist, multiple world medallist, and a world champion. Ashley did what, won 4CC controversially, and some GP's that's it. And like I said, i do understand why USFSA sent Ashley, what I don't understand is why was Mirai dropped in favour of a 15 year old with no experience what so ever. their explanation doesn't make any sense. they said Ashley had a great GP record in 2013, I agree, but based on the same criteria, Mirai should've been named on the team. She won a medal at 2013 GP, Polina won in junior GP's without the good russians in it, and crumbled in JGPF.
i'm really starting to believe that USFSA chose Polina due to her russian heritage and for providing their own 15 year old "phenom" to match julia. Though Polina has nothing on Julia. Lipnitskaia will destroy her.

With everything that went on and with the explanation that USFSA gave, the team should be: Gracie, Mirai, Ashley.

ballerinamao wrote:

chapis wrote:

zarinaballerina wrote:

[

This whole "it matters what you've done previously" is bunch of BS. if so, then why hold a national championships in first place? just take a look at the end of december at who's been doing good, select top three and be done with it.

Just imagine if Japan had two spots and Mao get the 3rd place at nationals like she did it, it would be fair to send to Kanako for only one better performance at nationals?, sorry but it is absurd, everyone can to have a fluke good performance and a good skater to have a bad day or bad competition.
And what about Daisuke, you think is unfair his spot in Sochi too?

yes I do, I think Oda definitely deserved the third spot based on his accomplishment at Nationals and the internationals events he attended, and I'm saying this despite me personally preferring Daisukes skating. putting Mao as an example just won't work, because it didn't happen, but even if it did Mao won all competitions she attended prior to nationals, from Japan Open, NHK, SA, GPF, not the same situation or position as the US skaters, not even close, nothing to compare there.

yes but all of you want to go the first 3 places of nationals, not matter all the other events, I know it did not happened but I only think a bad performance can to happen to anyone. And the american criteria were announced way before, not yesterday, Mirai already knew it, I don´t know why the surprise for her, why she did not appeal the criteria when USFS said it? Nobody did complain when the guidelines to selection out, all people thought it was a joke of the federation or what???

chapis wrote:

yes but all of you want to go the first 3 places of nationals, not matter all the other events, I know it did not happened but I only think a bad performance can to happen to anyone.   And the american criteria were announced way before, not yesterday, Mirai already knew it, I don´t know why the surprise for her, why she did not appeal the criteria when  USFS said it? Nobody did complain when the guidelines to selection out, all people thought it was a joke of the federation or what???

Beacuse people are used to having nationals as the deciding factor. Come on, are you suggesting that a GP or a GPF puts the same amount of pressure on a skater as does the National Championship? The fact is, Ashley didn't deliver, if this were any other year, she would've been left off the team. If the past seasons count, then why have Nationals in a first place? Just take a look at the skaters achievements and select them on the team.

And like I said in my above post, with all the explaining from USFSA, one kind of agrees with Ashley being on the team, but then there's the Polina problem. Either way, the USFSA decisin makes no sense.

I think Mirai will probably appeal over Polina being selected, not Ashley. Just my take on things. I could be wrong.

zarinaballerina wrote:

With everything that went on and with the explanation that USFSA gave, the team should be: Gracie, Mirai, Ashley.

 And judges gave to Polina higher PCS than Ashley and Mirai, what a joke, it is not like Polina had a great performance, she FELL. And yes I would move Satoko without doubt, at the moment she is not getting very good scores internationally. Whatever I don´t know why I worried for the american team, I prefer Russian and Japanese ladies, they are by far superior in all aspects.

chapis wrote:

yes but all of you want to go the first 3 places of nationals, not matter all the other events, I know it did not happened but I only think a bad performance can to happen to anyone.   And the american criteria were announced way before, not yesterday, Mirai already knew it, I don´t know why the surprise for her, why she did not appeal the criteria when  USFS said it? Nobody did complain when the guidelines to selection out, all people thought it was a joke of the federation or what???

A bad performance can happen to anyone, but this is not the first bad performance for Ashley this season, and certainly not the first time she completely falters at Nationals. the criteria were announced, and that why their choice is soo unacceptable, they don't follow their own criteria, if they did Mirai should have been on the team.

chapis wrote:

zarinaballerina wrote:

chapis wrote:

zarinaballerina wrote:

[

With everything that went on and with the explanation that USFSA gave, the team should be: Gracie, Mirai, Ashley.

 And judges gave to Polina higher PCS than Ashley and Mirai, what a joke, it is not like Polina had a great performance, she FELL. Whatever I don´t know why I worried for the american team, I prefer Russian and Japanese ladies, they are by far superior in all aspects.  

I completely agree with your entire post!

ballerinamao wrote:

chapis wrote:

yes but all of you want to go the first 3 places of nationals, not matter all the other events, I know it did not happened but I only think a bad performance can to happen to anyone.   And the american criteria were announced way before, not yesterday, Mirai already knew it, I don´t know why the surprise for her, why she did not appeal the criteria when  USFS said it? Nobody did complain when the guidelines to selection out, all people thought it was a joke of the federation or what???

A bad performance can happen to anyone, but this is not the first bad performance for Ashley this season, and certainly not the first time she completely falters at Nationals. the criteria were announced, and that why their choice is soo unacceptable, they don't follow their own criteria, if they did Mirai should have been on the team.

Which criteria are are you referring to, may I ask? I think US. change the criteria this year and the result is not based on US. national alone anymore? And they announce it before the season start.

 I kind of guessed this would happen...without a coach and without a representative to politicizing for Mirai, it was difficult for her to make the team.

On the practical side, naming Polina to US team is of no advantage either. Polina's current WS is 89th. Unless she'll be sent to 4CC (or other International B...is there any left to attend?) to successfully gain some more points, she'll have to skate very early on during the ladies' event in Sochi. Without any international experience, it will be very difficult for her to gain any momentum even she skates clean in SP. In the end, it's pretty much for USFS to pay$$ for Polina to buy the Olympic experience....

Afsfan wrote:

ballerinamao wrote:

chapis wrote:

yes but all of you want to go the first 3 places of nationals, not matter all the other events, I know it did not happened but I only think a bad performance can to happen to anyone.   And the american criteria were announced way before, not yesterday, Mirai already knew it, I don´t know why the surprise for her, why she did not appeal the criteria when  USFS said it? Nobody did complain when the guidelines to selection out, all people thought it was a joke of the federation or what???

A bad performance can happen to anyone, but this is not the first bad performance for Ashley this season, and certainly not the first time she completely falters at Nationals. the criteria were announced, and that why their choice is soo unacceptable, they don't follow their own criteria, if they did Mirai should have been on the team.

Which criteria are are you referring to, may I ask? I think US. change the criteria this year and the result is not based on US. national alone anymore? And they announce it before the season start.

here is  a quote from USFS chief executive David Raith "The feeling was with the new judging system it was most important to look at the overall performance of the athlete, not just at one event, and it was important for consistency to be taken most into account"

If they wanted to select the olympics team based on nationals, the top three finishers should have been selected, meaning Ashley should have been left out. but since this wasn't the case one would assume that they are doing their selection based on the international results like the chief executer david Raith said, but even then the selection doesn't make sense. because Mirai has had better international results then Polina.
bottom line is that after the selection today, it's obvious they are not following any criteria, but just choosing according to their own preferences.

COHK wrote:

 I kind of guessed this would happen...without a coach and without a representative to politicizing for Mirai, it was difficult for her to make the team.

On the practical side, naming Polina to US team is of no advantage either. Polina's current WS is 89th. Unless she'll be sent to 4CC (or other International B...is there any left to attend?) to successfully gain some more points, she'll have to skate very early on during the ladies' event in Sochi. Without any international experience, it will be very difficult for her to gain any momentum even she skates clean in SP. In the end, it's pretty much for USFS to pay$$ for Polina to buy the Olympic experience....

This just makes their choice become a stupid thoughtless decision they have made. Polina may be the future, but she is not the present. Mirai on the other hand is the present and with her only being 20 years old, she could possibly also be the future of US skating with many years ahead of her if she decides to stay. if they wanted to give Polina international experience they could have sent her to 4cc and Worlds this season, Olympics is really not a competition you let a new senior skater attend as their first major senior international competition, and boosting her pcs here at nationals is not likely gonna make her anymore a contender, it will only stirs controversy when people compare her international scores with her scores here at nationals.

Everyone hacked off about Mirai - take a look at this, please!

https://www.change.org/petitions/us-figure-skating-association-replace-polina-edmunds-with-mirai-nagasu-on-the-olympic-team#share

US World/Jr. world and 4CC team:

2014 U.S. World Ladies Figure Skating Team
Polina Edmunds
Gracie Gold
Ashley Wagner
Alternate No. 1 - Mirai Nagasu
Alternate No. 2 - Samantha Cesario
Alternate No. 3 - Courtney Hicks

2014 U.S. World Men’s Figure Skating Team
Max Aaron
Jeremy Abbott
Alternate No. 1 - Jason Brown
Alternate No. 2 - Joshua Farris
Alternate No. 3 - Richard Dornbush

2014 U.S. World Pairs Figure Skating Team
Marissa Castelli and Simon Shnapir
Caydee Denney and John Coughlin
Alternate No. 1 - Felicia Zhang and Nathan Bartholomay
Alternate No. 2 - Alexa Scimeca and Chris Knierim
Alternate No. 3 - Haven Denney and Brandon Frazier

2014 U.S. World Ice Dance Figure Skating Team
Madison Chock and Evan Bates
Meryl Davis and Charlie White
Maia Shibutani and Alex Shibutani
Alternate No. 1 - Madison Hubbell and Zachary Donohue
Alternate No. 2 - Alexandra Aldridge and Daniel Eaton
Alternate No. 3 - Lynn Kriengkrairut and Logan Giulietti-Schmitt

2014 U.S. Four Continents Ladies Figure Skating Team
Samantha Cesario
Courtney Hicks
Mirai Nagasu
Alternate No. 1 - Barbie Long
Alternate No. 2 - Christina Gao
Alternate No. 3 - Agnes Zawadzki

2014 U.S. Four Continents Men’s Figure Skating Team
Richard Dornbush
Joshua Farris
Adam Rippon
Alternate No. 1 - Douglas Razzano
Alternate No. 2 - Ross Miner
Alternate No. 3 - Brandon Mroz

2014 U.S. Four Continents Pairs Figure Skating Team
Haven Denney and Brandon Frazier
Tarah Kayne and Daniel O’Shea
Alexa Scimeca and Chris Knierim
Alternate No. 1 - Caydee Denney and John Coughlin
Alternate No. 2 - Gretchen Donlan and Andrew Speroff
Alternate No. 3 - Deedee Leng and Timothy LeDuc

2014 U.S. Four Continents Ice Dance Figure Skating Team
Alexandra Aldridge and Daniel Eaton
Madison Hubbell and Zachary Donohue
Lynn Kriengkrairut and Logan Giulietti-Schmitt
Alternate No. 1 - Anastasia Cannuscio and Colin McManus

2014 U.S. World Junior Ladies Figure Skating Team
Karen Chen
Amber Glenn
Tyler Pierce
Alternate No. 1 - Hannah Miller
Alternate No. 2 - Leah Keiser
Alternate No. 3 - Ashley Cain

2014 U.S. World Junior Men’s Figure Skating Team
Nathan Chen
Jordan Moeller
Shotaro Omori
Alternate No. 1 - Jimmy Ma
Alternate No. 2 - Chase Belmontes
Alternate No. 3 - Nicholas Vrdoljak

2014 U.S. World Junior Pairs Figure Skating Team
Madeline Aaron and Max Settlage
Kaitlin Budd and Nikita Cheban
Chelsea Liu and Devin Perini
Alternate No. 1 - Aya Takai and Brian Johnson

2014 U.S. World Junior Ice Dance Figure Skating Team
Kaitlin Hawayek and Jean-Luc Baker
Lorraine McNamara and Quinn Carpenter
Rachel Parsons and Michael Parsons
Alternate No. 1 - Holly Moore and Daniel Klaber
Alternate No. 2 - Elliana Pogrebinsky and Ross Gudis
Alternate No. 3 - Chloe Lewis and Logan Bye

zarinaballerina wrote:

I don't think she'll win it either, but she'll stir the controversy even more, and rightly so. As for her competing for Japan. japan has a very strong field, she will have to work her butt off if she wants any chance, not to mention she'll have to denounce her US citizenship and also USFSA will have to release her. They can be very bitchy when it comes to this. i know there was a skater 8i think in Ice dance) that had to sue them to release her, and even then it took alot of years. if USFSA releases her (which i doubt they will) she'll have to sit out for two years if i'm not mistaken. i know that for pairs it's one year, for singles not sure, however if USFSA refuses to release her, then I think it's even longer. USFSA can hold you for a few years, before being forced by law to release you. So mirai would loose alot if she went down this road.

If Mao and Akiko really retire, I think Mirai has a shot. She's better than Satoko and Rikai. But I don't think it'll happen. The USFSA jerks won't release her easily.

Wow, Polina is sent to Worlds. USFSA is so desperate to promote her as the next big thing.

zarinaballerina wrote:

i'm really starting to believe that USFSA chose Polina due to her russian heritage and for providing their own 15 year old "phenom" to match julia. Though Polina has nothing on Julia. Lipnitskaia will destroy her.

With everything that went on and with the explanation that USFSA gave, the team should be: Gracie, Mirai, Ashley.

You nailed it. My friend said that Sandra and Scott constanly mentioned that Polina can understand Russian. Who cares? She can't even speak Russian. If they think Polina can charm the Russian crowd with her ability to understand Russian, they're a bunch of morons. Polina is no US's answer to Julia. Not yet.

pearlyriver wrote:

zarinaballerina wrote:

I don't think she'll win it either, but she'll stir the controversy even more, and rightly so. As for her competing for Japan. japan has a very strong field, she will have to work her butt off if she wants any chance, not to mention she'll have to denounce her US citizenship and also USFSA will have to release her. They can be very bitchy when it comes to this. i know there was a skater 8i think in Ice dance) that had to sue them to release her, and even then it took alot of years. if USFSA releases her (which i doubt they will) she'll have to sit out for two years if i'm not mistaken. i know that for pairs it's one year, for singles not sure, however if USFSA refuses to release her, then I think it's even longer. USFSA can hold you for a few years, before being forced by law to release you. So mirai would loose alot if she went down this road.

If Mao and Akiko really retire, I think Mirai has a shot. She's better than Satoko and Rikai. But I don't think it'll happen. The USFSA jerks won't release her easily.

Wow, Polina is sent to Worlds. USFSA is so desperate to promote her as the next big thing.

Can someone remind me of this: was Polina sent to Junior world last season or not?

OMG I can't believe that USSF didn't even give Mirai a spot for Worlds, and instead gave it to polina too?? unbelievable I'm just speechless!

COHK wrote:

Can someone remind me of this: was Polina sent to Junior world last season or not?

Nope. 2013 is Polina's debut at international junior events. She hasn't even been to Junior Worlds yet. That's why I'm speechless. 

chapis wrote:

And about of work ethic I just don´t understand to Mirai, she "miraculously" get better in olympic season, what a convenience, I know she has talent but not much desire to work.

Mirai didn't miraculaously get better in the Olympics season. I believe she's been working her butt off to rise from the disastrous 7th place at NHK. She's been training in Japan for less than 2 months and it seems to work well for her. Besides, there may be many reasons why she had poor results in the past seasons: her body completely changes (Asian girls' bodies normally don't change much even after they go through puberty, but Mirai becomes much more muscular), her mother's struggle with cancer, USFSA and the media treated her badly etc. All of those factors can take a toll on anybody's mentality.

pearlyriver wrote:

COHK wrote:

Can someone remind me of this: was Polina sent to Junior world last season or not?

Nope. 2013 is Polina's debut at international junior events. She hasn't even been to Junior Worlds yet. That's why I'm speechless.  

Thanks! Now I remember...it was Samantha who came really close to the Jr world podium last season.
Don't know what to say about the final decision on the list   

Just saw this on my twitter: Mirai's comments

未来ちゃんのコメント；（連盟の決定は）残念です。私はその決定に必ずしも同意見とはいえませんが、連盟の決定は尊重します。サポートしてくださった全ての方に感謝し、私のスケート人生に次に何がやってくるのかを楽しみにしています。

Mirai is really graceful to make such comment. This makes me want to cheer for her more when she skates at 4CC this year (Mirai was doing quite well when she skated at 4CC in Taipei last time, though she didn't win. I hope she will still do the same!)

COHK wrote:

Just saw this on my twitter: Mirai's comments

未来ちゃんのコメント；（連盟の決定は）残念です。私はその決定に必ずしも同意見とはいえませんが、連盟の決定は尊重します。サポートしてくださった全ての方に感謝し、私のスケート人生に次に何がやってくるのかを楽しみにしています。

Mirai is really graceful to make such comment. This makes me want to cheer for her more when she skates at 4CC this year (Mirai was doing quite well when she skated at 4CC in Taipei last time, though she didn't win. I hope she will still do the same!)

Please translate COHK.

I can't believe they're not sending Mirai to worlds. I'm sorry, I can no longer support the top three American ladies with USSF treating one of their own like that. I hope the other girls do well, but that's as far as any support I will give them.

And if Mirai wants to compete for Japan, they better let her, since they obviously don't want her to support USA.

shar wrote:

COHK wrote:

Just saw this on my twitter: Mirai's comments

未来ちゃんのコメント；（連盟の決定は）残念です。私はその決定に必ずしも同意見とはいえませんが、連盟の決定は尊重します。サポートしてくださった全ての方に感謝し、私のスケート人生に次に何がやってくるのかを楽しみにしています。

Mirai is really graceful to make such comment. This makes me want to cheer for her more when she skates at 4CC this year (Mirai was doing quite well when she skated at 4CC in Taipei last time, though she didn't win. I hope she will still do the same!)

Please translate COHK.

I can't believe they're not sending Mirai to worlds. I'm sorry, I can no longer support the top three American ladies with USSF treating one of their own like that. I hope the other girls do well, but that's as far as any support I will give them.

And if Mirai wants to compete for Japan, they better let her, since they obviously don't want her to support USA.

Translation:
Mirai's comment: (on the decision from USFS) She feels sorry about that. She does not necessarily agree with the decision, but she will respect the decision of USFS. She's grateful to everyone who has supported her. And she is looking forward to what's coming next in her skating life.