2012 Trophee Eric Bompard

zarinaballerina wrote:

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

But I of course respect different views from mine, so never mind me if you don't agree. It's not my intension to start any debate here. Besides, it's pretty late in Jpn now, I'm going to sleep! Good night all!

This is exactly why I LOVE this forum so much. We can express our opinions without being affraid of getting attacked by other different thinking forum members.

fsu, gs, YNKF! i don't go to that forum anymore because it's hard to be fans of other skaters outside of team korea. and the posters constantly have strange banter and therefore argue constantly.

sorry, polosatik, please forgive me since you're also a regular poster at YNKF, too. you always amaze me and i look up to you because it must be hard to put up with the negative opinions of mao at YNKF and yu-na at this forum.

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

Well...but Mao got a 60something PCS with no 3-3 too. I think Ashley did much better in her FP tonight than she did in SA, and I felt she deserved a high PCS. Anyway, I think we should all take a look at the protocols first.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpfra2012/gpfra2012_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

Now when you take a look at the levels the judges gave to Ashleys spins and steps, they're not as I assumed at all. They weren't at all that sweet to her on GOEs either when you compare hers with Liza and see that there's not much difference. I guess the biggest difference is the PCS, but if not at SA, I really do think she deserved it this time and I'm not saying this because I like her. She did skate with alot of passion and energy tonight, I think she was fairly rewarded this time. But I of course respect different views from mine, so never mind me if you don't agree. It's not my intension to start any debate here. Besides, it's pretty late in Jpn now, I'm going to sleep! Good night all!

I expected Ashley to win and I like (but not love ) her skating as well. So I have no problem with her winning here. But from what I've seen of her programs, did she really deserve 190+ which was higher than what Caro won Worlds this year with iirc? I am extremely curious to watch her programs here and see how she holds up throughout the rest of the season because it seems like maybe she really is peaking too early...

kenkyo wrote:

I'm waaay too excited for NHK...going to be really interesting...
so im guessing ashley is now joining kiira to the GPF, who else made it??

So far it looks like Ashley, Kiira, Julia, and Liza have all made the final.

This GPF will be interesting to watch as well i really really hope mao makes it to the final
btw is it just me or has the TEB rink always been dark and dull? and the rink seems a tad bit smaller?

ElleluvsL wrote:

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

Well...but Mao got a 60something PCS with no 3-3 too. I think Ashley did much better in her FP tonight than she did in SA, and I felt she deserved a high PCS. Anyway, I think we should all take a look at the protocols first.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpfra2012/gpfra2012_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

Now when you take a look at the levels the judges gave to Ashleys spins and steps, they're not as I assumed at all. They weren't at all that sweet to her on GOEs either when you compare hers with Liza and see that there's not much difference. I guess the biggest difference is the PCS, but if not at SA, I really do think she deserved it this time and I'm not saying this because I like her. She did skate with alot of passion and energy tonight, I think she was fairly rewarded this time. But I of course respect different views from mine, so never mind me if you don't agree. It's not my intension to start any debate here. Besides, it's pretty late in Jpn now, I'm going to sleep! Good night all!

I expected Ashley to win and I like (but not love ) her skating as well. So I have no problem with her winning here. But from what I've seen of her programs, did she really deserve 190+ which was higher than what Caro won Worlds this year with iirc? I am extremely curious to watch her programs here and see how she holds up throughout the rest of the season because it seems like maybe she really is peaking too early...

So far it looks like Ashley, Kiira, Julia, and Liza have all made the final.

i'd have to look at the performances of both skaters again. carolina may not be the most loved skater on this forum, but i'm quite fond of her and her shostashkovic short program is pure art and genius. ashley's violin program shouldn't be anywhere close to carolina's shostashkovic program in terms of PCS.

I just saw the ice dance competition. Can someone explain to me why did Nathalie/Fabian receive 3 points higher PCS than the Italian couple? I'm no ice dance expert but to me the french couple didn't look better.

I must say, I absolutely love Anna's and Luca's Carmen. Too bad about the fall on twizzeles.

zarinaballerina wrote:

I just saw the ice dance competition. Can someone explain to me why did Nathalie/Fabian receive 3 points higher PCS than the Italian couple? I'm no ice dance expert but to me the french couple didn't look better.

I must say, I absolutely love Anna's and Luca's Carmen. Too bad about the fall on twizzeles.

because it's a competition in france? haha i have no clue i need to be more educated about ice dancing.

Nathalie and Fabian have better skating skills and a higher reputations. Unfortunately, reputation still matters in ice dance but not as much as before.

ElleluvsL wrote:

I expected Ashley to win and I like (but not love ) her skating as well. So I have no problem with her winning here. But from what I've seen of her programs, did she really deserve 190+ which was higher than what Caro won Worlds this year with iirc? I am extremely curious to watch her programs here and see how she holds up throughout the rest of the season because it seems like maybe she really is peaking too early...

This made me check the worlds protocols again. You're right. Ashley's TEB total is higher than Caro's WC total. However, we should also note that this season there are bonuses given in the SP. And Caro definitely wasn't clean in her SP at Worlds when she doubled her loop. And she only had 5 triples in her LP at worlds with only one 3F as the highest scoring jump. You can say she was scored pretty well there.

What's interesting to compare, instead is the PCS. Caro's SP PCS at WC was 30.74. Mao only got 29.60 but then she had a fall and -GOE on the 3Lo. Ashley then had a 27.62 but she was far from clean also. In this year's TEB, Ashley got 30.57 -- so close to Caro's (But I think Caro had 32+ somewhere last season). Mao still has the highest SP PCS (31+) this season even for that performance at CoC and even after her results last season. If Mao builds on that she can get more. That's why I'm interested in seeing Caro again and hope she build on her rep from last season. It'd be interesting how they'll score her PCS wise.

FS is another matter. Mao still got 64.34 at CoC with a program with two visible mistakes, a DG and a couple of URs while Ashley skated relatively clean and better at TEB and got 64.63 (prev 63.93 at SA). Caro at WC got 65+ but it wasn't a strong skate technically. That's why I want to see Mao skate that swan lake clean. I mean no URs (an "e" is still understandable) and no doubled jumps because if she does her swan lake is absolutely breathtaking. I wanna see what PCS they'll give.

Here's to hoping Akiko skates her O program clean finally also. It showed so much potential at FOI and I want her to get PCS more than 60 finally. She deserves it.

Alokya wrote:

Nathalie and Fabian have better skating skills and a higher reputations. Unfortunately, reputation still matters in ice dance but not as much as before.

I totally agree, watching the competition again, I can really see that there isn't much difference between them artistically, just the PE mark of P/B should have been higher, CH, TR and IN should be the same because C/L's Carmen is really breathtaking!

swan wrote:

fsu, gs, YNKF! i don't go to that forum anymore because it's hard to be fans of other skaters outside of team korea. and the posters constantly have strange banter and therefore argue constantly.

sorry, polosatik, please forgive me since you're also a regular poster at YNKF, too. you always amaze me and i look up to you because it must be hard to put up with the negative opinions of mao at YNKF and yu-na at this forum.

No need to say sorry, I'm quite used to this situation, since I love two rivals Yuna and Mao and their new comer rival Liza But I'm not regular poster there anymore .
We watched with Russian forum ladies competition, what can i say. Liza was AMAZING! She sold every second of her program, her technique was at the top, though she needs to work on her spin levels. She got teary in the end, so did I. Love, love this girl. She's so special to me, almost like Mao, it's when you feel like a skater is your relative or friend, Liza is like a little sister to me(Mao is like a best friend)! And she's an awesome person, she's the most sweet and warm-hearted skater and person from our ladies Ashely was really good, though the score was too high that's okay, they compared her with Yulia and Liza and of course she was superior in PCS. I don't worry about Mao, if she skates clean, with no UR she will be first To compare scores from different competition is not a right thing to do, let's wait then Mao and Ashley will be entering the same event. Btw, in case for Liza to be in GPF, Mao and Akiko have to 1st and second, or other way, because Agnes can make the podium and is she will e 2nd she will make GPF instead of Liza I believe in our princess and Akiko!! Go ladies!

polosatik wrote:

No need to say sorry, I'm quite used to this situation, since I love two rivals Yuna and Mao and their new comer rival Liza But I'm not regular poster there anymore .
We watched with Russian forum ladies competition, what can i say. Liza was AMAZING! She sold every second of her program, her technique was at the top, though she needs to work on her spin levels. She got teary in the end, so did I. Love, love this girl. She's so special to me, almost like Mao, it's when you feel like a skater is your relative or friend, Liza is like a little sister to me(Mao is like a best friend)! And she's an awesome person, she's the most sweet and warm-hearted skater and person from our ladies Ashely was really good, though the score was too high that's okay, they compared her with Yulia and Liza and of course she was superior in PCS. I don't worry about Mao, if she skates clean, with no UR she will be first To compare scores from different competition is not a right thing to do, let's wait then Mao and Ashley will be entering the same event. Btw, in case for Liza to be in GPF, Mao and Akiko have to 1st and second, or other way, because Agnes can make the podium and is she will e 2nd she will make GPF instead of Liza I believe in our princess and Akiko!! Go ladies!

OMG, polosatik, when Liza finished I had tears in my eyes. She was so amazing! I can't wait for her to be healthy and really skate her heart out! Though IMHO she deserved a bit higher PCS, she sold her program really well, and if Kaetlyn gets 59 for her junior-ish Carmen then Liza should not only get the same but even higher, imo. And just look at her body expression and her eyes when she's skating to Dark Eyes. She was awesome. Yulia take a look and learn, this is how you skate to music!

I can't wait to see Ashley and Mao at the same competition (GPF of course ) and see how they score them. Because, IMO, even if Mao makes mistakes she should trump Ashley in PCS.
And please Mao and Akiko place first and second so Liza gets to go Sochi! I don't really care for Agnes, don't like her programs.

Alokya wrote:

Nathalie and Fabian have better skating skills and a higher reputations. Unfortunately, reputation still matters in ice dance but not as much as before.

That's what I read many times on the Russian forum. Specialists there say that Anna's skating skills are poor. Both Fabian and Luca are great, but Natalie's skating is much better than Anna's and that Luca is a much better skater than his partner. They said she doesn't nave deep edges and is rather slow and that Luca has to work for both of them to hide her weaknesses.

Just wanted to add that it does seem like a reasonable explanation to me because in terms of performance and choreography I also think the Italians are more interesting. I don't think reputation is a big problem for them though - they have Shpilband as their coach now and Ciquanta is a head of ISU.

babayaga wrote:

Alokya wrote:

Nathalie and Fabian have better skating skills and a higher reputations. Unfortunately, reputation still matters in ice dance but not as much as before.

That's what I read many times on the Russian forum. Specialists there say that Anna's skating skills are poor. Both Fabian and Luca are great, but Natalie's skating is much better than Anna's and that Luca is a much better skater than his partner. They said she doesn't nave deep edges and is rather slow and that Luca has to work for both of them to hide her weaknesses.

Just wanted to add that it does seem like a reasonable explanation to me because in terms of performance and choreography I also think the Italians are more interesting. I don't think reputation is a big problem for them though - they have Shpilband as their coach now and Ciquanta is a head of ISU.

Thanks everyone for explaining! Like I said I don't know much about ice dancing.
I have tremendous respect for pair and ice dance skating. not only are both skaters in a team screwed if one of them makes a mistake, but if one of them is excellent as a skater and the partner isn't, the "excellent" skater gets dragged down. So it must be tough.

babayaga I agree, they will build on their reputation very fast (if they haven't already) since they are being coached by the best ice dancing coach in the world. And their long program is fantastic and Anna's costume simply fabolous,imo.

Igor is working very hard with Anna and Luca, they improved a lot. But yes, Anna doesn't have the strongest skating skills, and Luca is much superior to her, but they are showing improvement. That what I call Igor magic!!!

zarinaballerina wrote:

babayaga wrote:

Alokya wrote:

Nathalie and Fabian have better skating skills and a higher reputations. Unfortunately, reputation still matters in ice dance but not as much as before.

That's what I read many times on the Russian forum. Specialists there say that Anna's skating skills are poor. Both Fabian and Luca are great, but Natalie's skating is much better than Anna's and that Luca is a much better skater than his partner. They said she doesn't nave deep edges and is rather slow and that Luca has to work for both of them to hide her weaknesses.

Just wanted to add that it does seem like a reasonable explanation to me because in terms of performance and choreography I also think the Italians are more interesting. I don't think reputation is a big problem for them though - they have Shpilband as their coach now and Ciquanta is a head of ISU.

Thanks everyone for explaining! Like I said I don't know much about ice dancing.
I have tremendous respect for pair and ice dance skating. not only are both skaters in a team screwed if one of them makes a mistake, but if one of them is excellent as a skater and the partner isn't, the "excellent" skater gets dragged down. So it must be tough.

babayaga I agree, they will build on their reputation very fast (if they haven't already) since they are being coached by the best ice dancing coach in the world. And their long program is fantastic and Anna's costume simply fabolous,imo.

Fair enough. However, keep in mind that Igor took Marina's not-so-good teams, so his reputation isn't nearly as high as it used to be. Yeah, ice dancing is still really weird to me. I mean, I love it, but sometimes I think the judges can be blind (ahem - every time they look at the Shibutanis). I only really got into it once Meryl and Charlie and Tessa and Scott started competing for every possible point. But I think it's obvious when teams are good and when they aren't. Good teams make dance look effortless and lovely while bad teams clearly have problems doing elements together with finesse.

Alokya wrote:

Fair enough. However, keep in mind that Igor took Marina's not-so-good teams, so his reputation isn't nearly as high as it used to be. Yeah, ice dancing is still really weird to me. I mean, I love it, but sometimes I think the judges can be blind (ahem - every time they look at the Shibutanis). I only really got into it once Meryl and Charlie and Tessa and Scott started competing for every possible point. But I think it's obvious when teams are good and when they aren't. Good teams make dance look effortless and lovely while bad teams clearly have problems doing elements together with finesse.

Well, to be honest, I like it that only the not-so-good Shpilband-Zueva teams went with Igor. This way, he has a challenge in trying to make them the best they can be. Wasn't there an interwiev, where he spoke of, how bored he got after Tesa/Scott and Merly/Charlie became so good and he needed new challenges. Well, he's got them now.
we also shouldn't forget that Igor is a very big reason for Tessa/Scott and Merly/Charlie success. IMHO if these four were only coached by Marina through all those years, I don't see them becoming this good.

I'm also interested to see if both teams will remain with Marina for the Olympics.

I'm very disappointed in Marina. Not only because of her break up with Igor. What dances she choreographed this season? Only Meryl and Charlie FD, and it looks like it was made in two hours. All their technique dominance was because of Igor's work, I doubt they will lose it till Sochi but other teams won't be just staying there and watching. If they will give a reason to put them down, another pair will be on top. They don't have huge TES anymore now.

I, too, am happy that Igor took the not-so-good teams. He will make them amazing, I am sure! Hats off to him for dealing with whatever went down in Canton well. I actually disagree with you, polosatik - I love the Davis/White FD this season - with some time, it will be great. But Canton really does need a good technical coach. This Oleg guy they have right now... not so good, and it is showing in the Yankee Polka and some other technical elements that they used to have down pat. Whatever happened, I am still annoyed at Marina for allowing Igor to go - he was great and a good part of the reason why Davis/White and Virtue/Moir are at the top of ice dance right now. I think both teams are going to stay with Marina because she is good at training choreography and expression, and that is DEFINITELY needed for ice dance! But I also think they are going to beg for a good tech coach. I am worried that letting go of Igor might make the Nathalie and Fabian join those two in competing for medals...

Alokya wrote:

Whatever happened, I am still annoyed at Marina for allowing Igor to go - he was great and a good part of the reason why Davis/White and Virtue/Moir are at the top of ice dance right now. I think both teams are going to stay with Marina because she is good at training choreography and expression, and that is DEFINITELY needed for ice dance! But I also think they are going to beg for a good tech coach. I am worried that letting go of Igor might make the Nathalie and Fabian join those two in competing for medals...

Well according to others, this isn't the first time Marina pulled this off. I guess, both of their egos got in the way...

I don't know if both teams will stay with her, since it's known that she prefers Tessa/Scott. I agree with you about Nathalie/Fabian. I was so sure that after the bronze gift in Nice, the judges will drop them, but the French couple is getting some very high scores. It would be so awesome, if the Italian couple could somehow sneak in the medal hunt. I'm sure they'll be on the podium at Europeans, but it would be great if they could manage a bronze at Olympics as well, but I'm affraid they went to Igor too late. But I absolutely love what Igor has done with them.

Guys, OLys are in Russia,what are talking about? French,Italians?

polosatik wrote:

Guys, OLys are in Russia,what are talking about? French,Italians?

Well, now that that you put it this way... Though I'd still love to see Anna/Luca on the podium in Sochi, if it has to be a russian couple, then I'm hoping for Bobrova/Soloviev. Going to Sasha Zhulin sure did them well. I couldn't care less for Lena/Nikita and they used to be my favourite russian couple, the sooner they leave Morozov the better, imo.

zarinaballerina wrote:

polosatik wrote:

Guys, OLys are in Russia,what are talking about? French,Italians?

Well, now that that you put it this way... Though I'd still love to see Anna/Luca on the podium in Sochi, if it has to be a russian couple, then I'm hoping for Bobrova/Soloviev. Going to Sasha Zhulin sure did them well. I couldn't care less for Lena/Nikita and they used to be my favourite russian couple, the sooner they leave Morozov the better, imo.

They have never been my favourite Russian couple, but I liked Lena/Nikita while they were with Zhulin, I agree that they should leave Morozov and that HORRIBLE Ghost FD!

zarinaballerina wrote:

polosatik wrote:

Guys, OLys are in Russia,what are talking about? French,Italians?

Well, now that that you put it this way... Though I'd still love to see Anna/Luca on the podium in Sochi, if it has to be a russian couple, then I'm hoping for Bobrova/Soloviev. Going to Sasha Zhulin sure did them well. I couldn't care less for Lena/Nikita and they used to be my favourite russian couple, the sooner they leave Morozov the better, imo.

I am so glad you mentioned Bobrova/Soloviev, I am in love with them this season. What a transformation

Bobrova and Soloviev made a smart choice in changing coaches. They are awesome to watch live, now, and they were SO BORING before!

How do you know that Marina favors the Canadians? I suspected it for a long time, but were there any interviews or anything? I personally really dislike Tessa and Scott's attitudes... they get in the way of their skating. Also, I can't stand their FD this year... did Marina choreograph it? Because if so, THAT looked like it was done in less than a few hours.

babayaga wrote:

zarinaballerina wrote:

polosatik wrote:

Guys, OLys are in Russia,what are talking about? French,Italians?

Well, now that that you put it this way... Though I'd still love to see Anna/Luca on the podium in Sochi, if it has to be a russian couple, then I'm hoping for Bobrova/Soloviev. Going to Sasha Zhulin sure did them well. I couldn't care less for Lena/Nikita and they used to be my favourite russian couple, the sooner they leave Morozov the better, imo.

I am so glad you mentioned Bobrova/Soloviev, I am in love with them this season. What a transformation

I love them so much. When everyone stop believing in them, I was maybe the only one who didn't lose hope. They have evry good technique, it was just their programs that spoiled everything.