Four Continents (4CC) 2011 - Taipei

ETA: Phil Hersh is actually complimentary to Mao this time. I hope he stops. [/quote]


how can that be was there a live broadcast of 4cc with english commentary, if yes do you know where I can watch it...

polosatik wrote:

Guys, I hope you understand that it wasn't made by a member from YNKF, and since you went all here, yuo saw that there are a lot of Yuna fans who can be objective and don't hate Mao .
About Miki situation, I hope we can forgive them because earlier only Mao was seen as a threat to Yuna, now looking at the scores, it seems we have one more contender for a gold.

I hardly ever visit YNKF, but from what I understand it's relatively peaceful over there so thanks for clearing that up.

Like I said earlier, the bots seem to prefer dwelling within FSU, which I'm not too surprised about. I haven't been too kind on GS in the past, but the mods there do give an effort to keep things ordered and civilized so it's a much more productive place lately. It's not a top destination for me like the Mao forum and ONTD are, but I no longer consider it to be on the "bad" side of the spectrum as far as skating forums go.

ballerinamao wrote:

how can that be was there a live broadcast of 4cc with english commentary, if yes do you know where I can watch it...

There wasn't. Hersh is a journalist, not a commentator. He admits to lurking around FSU (he mentions in his latest article that he watched videos that were posted on FSU's 4CC thread) and his articles almost always reflect what the popular opinion is over there. He was a broken record of negative towards Mao's decision to change her technique for the majority of this season that this latest development is rather I'm always sad that the most prominent journalist that covers skating in the States is such a miserable, sensationalist groupie, but villains are necessary in this world too, right?

ONTD is my favorite too. It's such a nice fun place.

I've checked the site just before and the birthday thread is soooooooooo much fun!!
I do love their photos, posts, everything.

Happy first birthday, ONTD!!

Okami wrote:

europeanfan wrote:

All FS: Mao's, Mirai's and Miki's were gorgeous, I simply love them!!! But scores are
to me. I haven't seen Miki's Fs yet, but I don't get why she got 134 for clean Fs at 4CC and only 120 points for FS at CoC?? only becasue of 2A-3T instead of 2a-2t?

Thanks to 2A-3T Miki does 6 triples and 2 2As. 5 of her jumping passes, including high-scoring 2A-3T, 3Lz and 2A-2L-2L are in the 2nd half, so she gets a nice bonus. Plus her spins have improved a lot since last season and highlight the music well (esp. the use of the illusion spin). She also added more transitions and difficult steps leading into her 3L (more GoEs).

Thanks for info I haven't seen Miki's programs yet but I'll surely do it when I have more time

maofan93 wrote:

I just watched this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV9ZBeQJCOE

Her warm-up was gorgeous! She landed all of her jumps cleanly, including the axel-toe and sal that she missed in the competition. I think she may have also landed a triple flip-triple loop combination at the opposite end, but it's hard to tell because she was so tiny:)

Anyway, if she had skated like she did in the warm-up, with speed and confidence, I have no doubt she would have won the long and possibly won overall.

Thanks for the video! Her jumps look good. But personally I felt her speed was better in competition. I felt she was more cautious here as to avoid colliding with the other skaters. Her lutz look like it took off from the correct edge in real time. But I'm not sure because the one she did in competition also looked alright in real time. It's improving though!

Has everyone seen this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX84UDhgIRE

Someone posted a Yuna program with the title "Mao Asada 2011 4CC FS". Can you believe a person accused Mao fans of doing it?

Luckyone wrote:

maofan93 wrote:

I just watched this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV9ZBeQJCOE

Her warm-up was gorgeous! She landed all of her jumps cleanly, including the axel-toe and sal that she missed in the competition. I think she may have also landed a triple flip-triple loop combination at the opposite end, but it's hard to tell because she was so tiny:)

Anyway, if she had skated like she did in the warm-up, with speed and confidence, I have no doubt she would have won the long and possibly won overall.

It is a 3F-2L if my eyes don´t trick me
Her warm up is excellent, I really hope she would land the 3S

at 2:50, it definetely is a 3f-3l !

kawaiimao wrote:

Okami wrote:

It's still OK for the skaters to do two 3-3s in the LP, but one has to be careful not to violate the Zayak rule. If YuNa did somethink like:

3Lz-3T
3F-3T
3Lz
3S
2A-2T-2L
2A

She would have one solo jumping pass left, but with two triples (Lutz and toe) and two 2As already repeated the only jump she could do would be 3L (or some sort of a double, but that wouldn't be CoP-smart).

She could still repeat the 3F, no?
I think I heard somewhere, that she was actually doing 3sal-2-2, so she's probably repeating the sal, but wouldn't this (3Lz-3T, 3F-3T repeating both the lutz and the flip)
be the most ambitious layout she could attempt while still avoiding the loop?

No, she couldn't repeat the 3F, because she's already repeating 3Lz and 3T, and the skaters can repeat only two types of triples (and a double axel).

There are some rumors at YuNa forum that she's practicing 3S-2T-2L and not planning to bring any new elements. If the rumors are true, then her jumping layout might look like this:

3Lz-3T
3F
3Lz
2A-2T
3S-2T-2L
3S
2A

Repeating Lutz and Salchow. But of course those are just rumors, and I still think she'll attempt to bring back 3L.

BTW, this gave me an idea to create a subforum dedicated to CoP - with explanations of the rules, the current Scale of Values, glossary of figure skating terms, etc.. It might take a while to put it up, but I think it could be very helpful to new fans.

bibi wrote:

Luckyone wrote:

maofan93 wrote:

I just watched this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV9ZBeQJCOE

Her warm-up was gorgeous! She landed all of her jumps cleanly, including the axel-toe and sal that she missed in the competition. I think she may have also landed a triple flip-triple loop combination at the opposite end, but it's hard to tell because she was so tiny:)

Anyway, if she had skated like she did in the warm-up, with speed and confidence, I have no doubt she would have won the long and possibly won overall.

It is a 3F-2L if my eyes don´t trick me
Her warm up is excellent, I really hope she would land the 3S

at 2:50, it definetely is a 3f-3l !

Yes it was! Upon watching it again I can tell it was a triple-triple. The two jumps had such nice ice coverage and height that I doubted my eyes. Her loops in combination used to just go up and down, but this has an arc similar to that of her solo 3Lo! Very exciting - I hope she includes it at worlds and becomes the first woman to land 8 triples in the LP!

maofan93 wrote:

bibi wrote:

Luckyone wrote:

maofan93 wrote:

I just watched this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV9ZBeQJCOE

Her warm-up was gorgeous! She landed all of her jumps cleanly, including the axel-toe and sal that she missed in the competition. I think she may have also landed a triple flip-triple loop combination at the opposite end, but it's hard to tell because she was so tiny:)

Anyway, if she had skated like she did in the warm-up, with speed and confidence, I have no doubt she would have won the long and possibly won overall.

It is a 3F-2L if my eyes don´t trick me
Her warm up is excellent, I really hope she would land the 3S

at 2:50, it definetely is a 3f-3l !

Yes it was! Upon watching it again I can tell it was a triple-triple. The two jumps had such nice ice coverage and height that I doubted my eyes. Her loops in combination used to just go up and down, but this has an arc similar to that of her solo 3Lo! Very exciting - I hope she includes it at worlds and becomes the first woman to land 8 triples in the LP!

Wow! Thanks for pointing that out guys. It's so great to see her second jump in combo having as much ice coverage as her first jump. There's a thread on FSU that debated about judges watching practices of skaters at competitions and how that usually leaves a good/bad impression on the panel. I bet Mao must have left a great impression on the judges with her 6-min warmup. From the way they were scoring, they were willing to give her the gold if she hadn't made those little mistakes.

maofan93 wrote:

I just watched this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV9ZBeQJCOE

Her warm-up was gorgeous! She landed all of her jumps cleanly, including the axel-toe and sal that she missed in the competition. I think she may have also landed a triple flip-triple loop combination at the opposite end, but it's hard to tell because she was so tiny:)

Anyway, if she had skated like she did in the warm-up, with speed and confidence, I have no doubt she would have won the long and possibly won overall.

Thanks for the link, maofan93! From the way the judges scored her, I too agree that had she landed a couple of jumps cleaner, she would probably had won by a slight margin. But I am actually glad that she didn't because now she is motivated to do even better, saying that she has to work on her underrotations, especially on the 2A-3T. That will lead her to new heights.

Dare I hope for a FS jump layout that only contains 1 3A. since Mao said she's going to work on the 2A-3T?

Mao's 2A-3T was gorgeous; the 3T actually looked like she completed all the rotations in the air before she lands.

The crowd seems to have glued their eyes onto Mao and is cheering her every move. What a warm welcome Taiwan has given the skaters! I also read from Taiwan newspapers that thousands Japanese skating fans came all the way from Japan to support their skaters, especially because the tickets are so hard to get and so expensive there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJTg3QTEyiA

Thanks to one of the comments, I recognized Mao at 3:30; this camera angle shows that her lutz definitely took off from an outside edge. It's a double but what a great improvement!!

Okami, a subforum is a great idea! COP changes from season to season, so I confuses certain rules.

I could only identify 3 Loops and 3 Sal according to the jump entry Mao uses. I noticed sometimes skaters use different techniques and wound up confusing the two jump one time.

Aiko Shimazu posted a review of 4CC at Japan Skates, including some quotes from Mao, Sato-sensei and Kumiko sensei:

http://japanskates.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=64&sid=0116ec635a3af5043197a27ea0e3aaa3

aoi88, thanks for bring up the topic of speed! I too felt that Mao skated slightly faster during the performance. Though, if we judge it by the boards of the rink side, we could still see the boards rather clearly.

I once had the opportunity to watch Kanako's and Mao's Japanese national FS back to back on a big television screen (a sports channel miraculously decided to broadcast it) and the speed difference, is really apparent, even though I'm just watching it on TV. The sponsor boards become all blurry when Kanako skates but I could read every single last letter on the boards when Mao skated...

Here's a side-by-side comparison of Mao's national FS and 4CC FS. From my untrained eye, I felt she skated with more flow and just a tad more speed at nationals. Probably because 4CC is the first competition she's skated this (essentially) new program.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4QvfUtD-cE&feature=player_embedded#at=92

From interviews after the FS, as well as from the one below, Sato-sensei specifically stated that he wants Mao to skate with more power and momentum. When asked about the 3-3, he sounds cautious and wants to makes sure that Mao rotates the jumps properly first.

Quote :

佐藤信夫コーチは「３回転＋３回転もギリギリまで頑張って様子を見て、きちんと判断することになる」と慎重だ。演技にも「もう少しパワーと勢いが欲しい」

http://blog.shueisha.net/sportiva/othersports/index.php?ID=121

snowdrops24 wrote:

I once had the opportunity to watch Kanako's and Mao's Japanese national FS back to back on a big television screen (a sports channel miraculously decided to broadcast it) and the speed difference, is really apparent, even though I'm just watching it on TV. The sponsor boards become all blurry when Kanako skates but I could read every single last letter on the boards when Mao skated...

Kanako skates very fast. She reminds me of Yukari in a way, although without the latter's sophistication yet. Mao was never a really fast skater, although what she has is effortless flow over the ice. Kanako is very fast but I feel her movements over the ice are a bit sloppy and also seems she's stroking a lot between elements. In contrast, Mao seems to glide over the ice.

snowdrops24 wrote:

From interviews after the FS, as well as from the one below, Sato-sensei specifically stated that he wants Mao to skate with more power and momentum. When asked about the 3-3, he sounds cautious and wants to makes sure that Mao rotates the jumps properly first.

Quote :

佐藤信夫コーチは「３回転＋３回転もギリギリまで頑張って様子を見て、きちんと判断することになる」と慎重だ。演技にも「もう少しパワーと勢いが欲しい」

http://blog.shueisha.net/sportiva/othersports/index.php?ID=121

I love that Sato's is holding Mao back from attempting too much at once. I agree that Mao needs more speed and power in her skating now. I've been watching her old performances lately and there are two things that strike out at me. One is how much her technique on her toe jumps have changed. It's really apparent when you compare it to her old jumps. The second is that Mao seemed to have much better speed and flow when she was younger. Although speed and power are not a big deal for slow music like Liebestraum, it can make a world of difference for her Tango SP.

Okami wrote:

No, she couldn't repeat the 3F, because she's already repeating 3Lz and 3T, and the skaters can repeat only two types of triples (and a double axel).

Thanks for the explanation. Somehow I completely missed that only two types of triples can be repeated.
Seems like the new subforum is definitely a good idea.

Thought might as well do a recap of all the videos of Mao's performances at this event

Japanese Commentary:

Short Program

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcV3I_Js0hc (Fuji TV)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH70BR9ufow (J Sports)

Free Skate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeQAqGQCNjY (Fuji TV)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTTxA6MkGIo (J Sports)

Chinese Commentary:

Short Program

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkWk1jnLeKs (緯來體育 - from Taiwan)

Free Skate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pKrgWezwRI (CCTV commentary - from mainland China)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlhZEkTqK4E (ELTA 體育 commentary - from Taiwan)

Exhibition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp72qcl56HI (ELTA 體育 commentary - from Taiwan)

No commentary:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPxBwNxXxp4 (SP 6 min warm up)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV9ZBeQJCOE (FS 6 min warm up)

______________

I usually watch Fuji TV's broadcasts of Mao's performance for mostly one reason only - they have the best quality vids on YT. But their coverage was surprisingly enjoyable this time - probably because of how well Mao performed at this event.

Feel free to tell me if I posted any wrong links...

snowdrops24 wrote:

Thought might as well do a recap of all the videos of Mao's performances at this event

Japanese Commentary:

Short Program

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcV3I_Js0hc (Fuji TV)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH70BR9ufow (J Sports)

Free Skate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeQAqGQCNjY (Fuji TV)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTTxA6MkGIo (J Sports)

Chinese Commentary:

Short Program

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkWk1jnLeKs (緯來體育 - from Taiwan)

Free Skate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pKrgWezwRI (CCTV commentary - from mainland China)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlhZEkTqK4E (ELTA 體育 commentary - from Taiwan)

Exhibition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp72qcl56HI (ELTA 體育 commentary - from Taiwan)

No commentary:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPxBwNxXxp4 (SP 6 min warm up)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV9ZBeQJCOE (FS 6 min warm up)

______________

I usually watch Fuji TV's broadcasts of Mao's performance for mostly one reason only - they have the best quality vids on YT. But their coverage was surprisingly enjoyable this time - probably because of how well Mao performed at this event.

Feel free to tell me if I posted any wrong links...

Thank you very much! Now to add them to my tiny Mao collection~!

And this is a bit off-topic, but some posters here need to calm down. Some are very aggressive in voicing their stand against a certain skater, but there are certain people who use certain words that are offending to that skater and uncalled for. We should give our respect to all skaters so from now on we should be careful of what we post because the most important thing is that we support Mao no matter what happens.

Thank you for all the wonderful videos and pictures/articles everyone!

I'm so glad that Mao is excited for worlds as much as we are. I'm sure she's just itchin' to land that 3A in the sp at Tokyo.

I was just looking over at icenetwork and the Shibutanis have posted pics of the closing banquet. I see Armin with an uber happy smile. I wonder if that's before or after talking to Mao.

She looks great in her mauve dress.

http://web.icenetwork.com/gen/photogallery/year_2011/month_02/day_22/cf16701762.html

The ladies small medal Q&A:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4377JNmqpF0

The mens' small medal presentation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHGE8YcEvPc

HAHA the medal ceremony when Miki says "I think somebody has a question for Mirai" and the guy goes "sorry no more questions". Miki is so nice and her english is very good. I wish Mao would speak in English in the interviews - she was so cute during her ESPN interviews a few years back when she would play charades with Peter Carruthers

haha love the questien mao get at the press conference, it was really funny!!! but really I can't belive that they didn't have more they wanted to ask, because I thought the press conference would take much longer time since I heard the reaason why mao and the others took so long until they showed there ex was because the press conference was so long... anyway when having worlds right around the corner and two of the best women skater and mirai who made a beautiful comeback after nationals right in front of them to ask anything from possible jumps layouts to other changes or if they are going to work on something specific or put a 3-3 there simply are so many questionss and yet the only ones they manage to ask are questiens which answers are obvious!!! these journalists sure don't know how to make the most of the time they get....

anyway can't wait for more news about mao and her plans at worlds...

Hello, hello everyone, long time no see!!

Like klarification, I’ve been too busy recently to write on the forum!

But the *adorable* Taka/Mao wedding cake pics were too much for me, so I had to respond!

Thanks to everyone for all the links and translations and tidbits!!

Here are my thoughts, in somewhat random order:

BEST LP EVER!!!!
I was completely blown away watching the new and (in my opinion) improved Liebestraum! It reminded me a lot of my impression of “Clair de Lune”: at first it seemed like the perfect song choice, but Mao couldn’t quite get it together, and then when she finally performed it perfectly at the 2009 WTT, it was mindblowing.

Mao’s 4CC LP was not perfect—the jumps in the second half were underrotated; she’s still a little slow on the spins, and even she said that the end was a bit rushed.

But THIS was the Mao Asada I had been waiting for! Four minutes of pure ballet beauty on ice! Those soft arms, those beautiful positions, the way the music emanates from her body through the tips of her fingers and her toes.

I know that some of you preferred the original version, and I do agree that the step sequence did seem to fit the music better before, but for me, the whole program unfolded like one long, unbroken dance, punctuated by light, airy jumps. It was not a competition program, it was art.

Sublime, just sublime.

That 3A at the beginning of the program was simply WOW! Mao normally launches her 3A about midway down the rink, but because she was going so fast, she was almost at the end of the rink before she jumped. And that height!

At the Olympics, her 3As were impressive to me because they looked powerful, like she put a lot of force into them. Here, she seemed to jump even higher (and potentially farther), but there was still this sense of ease and lightness; she made it look so easy.

I love all the new little details, the little bits of choreo. There was not a single dull moment for me, and every few seconds I kept sighing appreciatively. “Ahh, so pretty~!”

Mao was FLYING through that step sequence—so smooth, so much flow! Gorgeous! But I do miss how it used to fit with the music, how Mao would throw her hand up on the dramatic downbeat.

I love the spiral sequence at the end, and the way Mao can stop, catch her breath, and slowly unfold her arms to beam at the judges. Bravo!!

Now that I’ve gushed, here are a few other things:

That 3S just seems to be in a problematic place. Before, she had trouble transitioning from the spiral sequence into the 3S, and now she doesn’t have enough time after the 3S to get into the flying spin. Hopefully with time, that will work itself out.

I’m not sure what to say about the short program at this point. I liked her new costume A LOT better than the previous one, but it’s not great. And it did seem like Mao could’ve worn more makeup.

As others have said, Mao’s 2007-08 SP is my favorite, and I think the Schnittke tango is passionate/melancholy in a similar way, so I think there is potential.

I thought the flow through the step sequence here was much better than at Nationals, but I think what will make the REAL DIFFERENCE is Mao hitting the 3A solidly. We all know that how Mao does on the 3A tends to determine the rest of her program, so I think once she can pull that off, she will be full of energy and pizazz for the rest of the program. Then we will see Tarasova’s genius come out again.

Personally, I am not a fan of the uncovered boots, since they are not exactly the same color as her stockings. I prefer the stockings over boots in general, because it makes the line of the leg look longer.

And now, looking ahead:

I’m happy that Mao got the highest PCS in the LP, but I’m curious to see what her GOEs would look like if she can do her elements cleanly. Unlike Miki and Yu-Na, who get only positive GOEs, Mao’s GOEs seem to be totally mixed, with some judges thinking it’s perfect and others thinking it needs deductions. I’m guessing that depends a lot on reputation, and now Mao unfortunately has the reputation of underrotating/making jump errors. To fix this, she needs to be more consistent, and I think she knows that.

I definitely think “Liebestraum” is PERFECT for Mao. This is the type of program that she needs to do at the Olympics. It is 100% Mao and brings out all her best characteristics. I just hope she doesn’t get sick of this type of program before the Olympics and decide to do something drastically different.

I think KariDebate mentioned wanting to see her work with Yuka Sato—I think that could be awesome!

FINALLY

I don’t care how Miki or YuNa or Alissa or anyone else skates at Worlds. And I don’t care how they’re scored either.

I don’t care about the other fans; they can say whatever they want; that’s why I don’t read the other forums.

All I care about is Mao Asada giving a performance that she can be happy with.

If at Worlds, I can see Mao Asada hopping up and down on the ice with delight, and see her squeezed in happy hugs by Nobuo-sensei and Kumiko-sensei, then I will be 100% satisfied!

Goo Mao!!

A new article translation about mao

http://kumaneko037.blog103.fc2.com/blog-entry-98.html


and usually i hate the chosen ilbo but this article has quotes from mao

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/02/23/2011022301208.html

KariDebate wrote:

A new article translation about mao

http://kumaneko037.blog103.fc2.com/blog-entry-98.html


and usually i hate the chosen ilbo but this article has quotes from mao

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/02/23/2011022301208.html

"But many people in Japan are still skeptical of Kim's return to the competitive skating."
Ah how I hate chosen ilbo
Where did they get that idea?

Plus Mao says she wanna have kids and get married in 10 years!
I kinda remember her saying she still wants to skate in 10years in previous interviews!

(I'd still want her to get married with Taka-Chan though )

MaoChan756 wrote:

KariDebate wrote:

A new article translation about mao

http://kumaneko037.blog103.fc2.com/blog-entry-98.html


and usually i hate the chosen ilbo but this article has quotes from mao

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/02/23/2011022301208.html

"But many people in Japan are still skeptical of Kim's return to the competitive skating."
Ah how I hate chosen ilbo
Where did they get that idea?

Plus Mao says she wanna have kids and get married in 10 years!
I kinda remember her saying she still wants to skate in 10years in previous interviews!

(I'd still want her to get married with Taka-Chan though )

Ridiculous sentence. Who's sceptical? Yuna has always been a consistent skater or do they doubt her comeback? Yuna will be at Worlds, I'm 100 % sure.

I'm praying for husband Dai.

polosatik wrote:

Ridiculous sentence. Who's sceptical? Yuna has always been a consistent skater or do they doubt her comeback? Yuna will be at Worlds, I'm 100 % sure.

I'm praying for husband Dai.

Yuna herself said that she will be at Worlds. I'm not from Japan, but I doubt they practice such negative way of thinking. Where did this article get that information?

Aww Asya! You're teasing Batsuchan again!

Photo posted by Armin:

Armin and Mao