Four Continents (4CC) 2012 - Colorado Springs

zarinaballerina wrote:

Sochi will have two Olympic willages, if i'm not mistaken. One on the Black Sea coast where also the figure skating competition will be held, and one on the mountains for the skiers... Same as in Vancouver. So I don't think that the altitude is going to be a problem.

zarinaballerina thanks for answering. i am relieved that the altitude of sochi would not give mao problems at the olympics.. so that is one less thing to worry about..

ashcroft1086 wrote:

zarinaballerina wrote:

Sochi will have two Olympic willages, if i'm not mistaken. One on the Black Sea coast where also the figure skating competition will be held, and one on the mountains for the skiers... Same as in Vancouver. So I don't think that the altitude is going to be a problem.

zarinaballerina thanks for answering. i am relieved that the altitude of sochi would not give mao problems at the olympics.. so that is one less thing to worry about..

Its funny you mentioned that because Mao didnt look like she was struggling with the altitude problem. Some skaters do look like they were struggling though, one male skater actually stopped right before his step sequence with hands down on his legs, hunching over. It took a few seconds for to catch his breath plus the audience's encouragement to have him finish his program.
Nan Song, a chinese skater, actually had an oxygen mask strapped over his face as he sat in the Kiss & Cry area.

Mao, on the other hand, looked cheerful and not breathing heavily.

will_power wrote:

Its funny you mentioned that because Mao didnt look like she was struggling with the altitude problem. Some skaters do look like they were struggling though, one male skater actually stopped right before his step sequence with hands down on his legs, hunching over. It took a few seconds for to catch his breath plus the audience's encouragement to have him finish his program.
Nan Song, a chinese skater, actually had an oxygen mask strapped over his face as he sat in the Kiss & Cry area.

Mao, on the other hand, looked cheerful and not breathing heavily.

yep, i know that she's somewhat used to skating in high altitude having been trained at lake arrowhead for almost two years.. but there is a sense of comfort or reassurance in knowing that she won't be facing that problem come the olympics in sochi.. i noticed that mao adjusted some of her transitions for some parts of the program.. like entries to the spins and jumps (maybe i'm wrong ).. but i guess that is to preserve her energy all throughout her free skate program... maybe that's why she looks so cheerful in the k&c...

having seen some skaters struggle in that altitude just like what happened to nan song and even kanako.. i just can't help but feel worried for mao.. especially now that she is still rebuilding her jumps and trying to nail 3As and the salchow... maybe the altitude wouldn't be a problem for her in sochi.. so that is one thing that her team wouldn't have to worry about come the olympics..

btw, thanks for posting pictures that you guys have taken during the event.. so happy that you got to interact with mao and kanako.. i'm looking forward to the day that i would also meet her in person..

ashcroft1086 wrote:

btw, thanks for posting pictures that you guys have taken during the event.. so happy that you got to interact with mao and kanako.. i'm looking forward to the day that i would also meet her in person..

I wish you good luck! Although beware of the PTB (Post Traumatic Blues) that follows after meeting Mao-chan, because I miss her sorely haha. Mao is such a sweet-heart, I also hope I get a second chance to tell her how great she is as a role model and skater! Truly a magnificent character.

will_power wrote:

I wish you good luck! Although beware of the PTB (Post Traumatic Blues) that follows after meeting Mao-chan, because I miss her sorely haha. Mao is such a sweet-heart, I also hope I get a second chance to tell her how great she is as a role model and skater! Truly a magnificent character.

As most of you have already shared here and from what I watched from television. I guess it would be a lot easier to talk to her because she's friendly and approachable. But still, she is Mao Asada. So I guess I have to muster enough courage and strength to approach her if such opportunity would be presented to me. I usually get so nervous in front of people that I admire. I might fumble or stutter and even start talking gibberish if I met her in person.

Like you, I would also say to her that she's an inspiration to many people and how I admire her as a figure skater and as person. And of course to take a photo with her as well. I guess that post-traumatic blues would be all worth it if I will meet her in the future. btw, belated happy birthday!! I remembered reading in your post that meeting her is the best birthday present you ever received.

sorry to change the subject again, but that triple flip in the combination was huge in her practice! is it the camera angle? it doesn't seem that mao's triple flip is that huge when watching her perform. perhaps it's a case of nerves.

morozombie post on 4CC (he likes Mao's LP dress ): http://morozombie.blogspot.com/2012/02/four-continents-2012.html

babayaga wrote:

morozombie post on 4CC (he likes Mao's LP dress ): http://morozombie.blogspot.com/2012/02/four-continents-2012.html

I liked how morozombie mentioned "Christopher Caluza's LP". As a skater who kind of mimics Mao's Bells of Moscow program, I can recognize any move and step in that program. So when I first saw Christopher Caluza's step sequence in his LP, my mouth was literally wide open out of shock (in a good, surprised way). The first half of his step sequence was the same as Mao's first half of her step sequence. I might be wrong, but I'm kind of positive that Chris copied half of it.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xok482_christopher-caluza-4cc-2012-lp_sport

Actually make that 2 copies. His first circular step sequence is Mao Asada's Liebestraum step sequence, and his second one is Prelude Op 3 No 2.

Some stories from 4CC. I will post more later.
1. Mao went to ice dance practice Sunday morning. And she also went to watch the last group of ice dance competition with Kanako,Imai and a JSF official. Seems like she is really into ice dance these days,lol. She sit on her limit-edition Rimova suitcase when watching ice dance practice. It's kinda funny.
2. Kanako is definitely the biggest Mao fan. I saw her with Mao many times...And on the shuttle back to hotel after gala, Kanako just sit on Mao's laps ... Well, many people were waiting for that shuttle so they probably want to save a seat. But when they got on that shuttle, there were still plenty of seat left...Narumi was sitting next to them. On the way back to hotel, Mao,Kanako, Narumi, Daisuke adn Mura talked a lot.
3. When we planned to take the shuttle to arena in Sunday afternoon, we met several Canadian skaters in the elevator. They were in robes and planned to go to the hot tub. Later Mao and Wada san arrived waiting for the same elevator. One Canadian skater told Mao to skip gala and join them. Another girl just said"oh, don't listen to him". Mao just smiled quietly. Later she asked my friend, who knows Japanese, if they were going to the pool. We think she didn't understand what the two skaters said,lol.
4. I threw a big bear to Mao. At first I thought the bear Mao hold in Kiss&Cry was mine. But my friend told me that it's the same one as mine but not mine... Fuji captured me giving a gift to Mao after short program and throwing that bear to her after long program...

Is that you, tianrushui? are you wearing a pair of white-framed glasses?
Thanks for sharing your precious experiences at 4CC.

Wow, thanks so much for the interesting stories tianrushui I feel like a got a glimpse of how the skaters are normal young people off the ice. I wish I was waiting at the elevator with Mao. Wow, just thinking about it

Is this you at 12:56
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncsb7dxSYyA

And is this you at 5:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QXE21UVs9o
I'm sure Mao appreciated how she got two lovely, big teddy bears at her hotel

ETA: Thanks for the info about the step sequence guys! I'll go check out Christopher now since I don't know who he is

maowataiyo wrote:

Is this you at 12:56
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncsb7dxSYyA

And is this you at 5:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QXE21UVs9o
I'm sure Mao appreciated how she got two lovely, big teddy bears at her hotel

Indeed so. It was a bunch of her friends and tianrushui that helped Annabell (bellarina) and me to capture the moment of my life!

will_power wrote:

Indeed so. It was a bunch of her friends and tianrushui that helped Annabell (bellarina) and me to capture the moment of my life!

Cool. I'd be forever grateful- lol. Awesome picture indeed. I mean, I'd totally be bummed if my head were cut off or anything like that. Thankfully they captured your guys Mao-Kana encounter wondefully

And thanks for the link to Christopher video. The step sequence is indeed a Mao replica. The part @ 4:19 is such a signature Mao choreography even many casual fans can probably recognize it.

Btw, I tried searching for you in the men's medal ceremony but I can't find a tall Chinese guy? Donde esta? I'm playing where's will_power?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOcgN5neCm4

maowataiyo wrote:

Btw, I tried searching for you in the men's medal ceremony but I can't find a tall Chinese guy? Donde esta? I'm playing where's will_power?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOcgN5neCm4

lol! If you really want to look for me, I'm in these videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7f_0bigGrg at 0:02 with a grey hoodie with white zippers, holding a japanese flag, also at 5:38, grey hoodie with white zippers again.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h83XIoOnlZg 0:15 on the lower left of the american flag, same hoodie and a pair of khaki/beige pants

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUASKHASs_8 5:35 standing up, same outfit.

I also spotted myself in Adam Rippon's, Misha Ge's and other men's FS clips For the ladies, I'm in the clips but its harder to see me because of the quality and higher up seating. For the men's FS, I was right next to the camera (the corner between Kiss and Cry and Judges) and second row from the ice so I was easier to spot. You can basically see me in any of the Men's FS clips before and after the program, when the corner camera is directed at the audience.

Neat how you guys are now part of the youtube realm.

will_power wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h83XIoOnlZg 0:15 on the lower left of the american flag, same hoodie and a pair of khaki/beige pants

I would have mistaken you for a professional cameraman if you had been standing up with the way you're intently focusing your camera lens

tianrushui wrote:

2. Kanako is definitely the biggest Mao fan. I saw her with Mao many times...And on the shuttle back to hotel after gala, Kanako just sit on Mao's laps ... Well, many people were waiting for that shuttle so they probably want to save a seat. But when they got on that shuttle, there were still plenty of seat left...Narumi was sitting next to them. On the way back to hotel, Mao,Kanako, Narumi, Daisuke adn Mura talked a lot.

Yeah, I think Kana-chan has a kind of little sister relationship to Mao because they trained and grew up together

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl4o60yNwBQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvxQXOpCaLw&feature=related

Ok, so I’ve read the thread, and the part about the Spiral (+3’s for Ashley), and then I read on Goldenskate that her spiral satisfied all the “bullet points”.

Can someone tell me how it satisfied all the bullet points?
I remember spirals at the Olympics (2010), before the rule change, and those I thought were spectacular at times - coverage, extension, edges. But I didn’t see that in Ashley’s spiral. I also agree with other posters about the robotic ugly arm movements. So unlike the magical Black Swan of Bauil years ago. Yes, things have changed... And not necessarily for the better.

So, who’ll break down Ashley’s spiral and its “bullet points” for me?

Thanks in advance?

In general, I’m a bit disheartened. I feel like what we’re witnessing is more of the same as before: no matter what Mao does (switch coaches, start from scratch), the bottom line is that she never gets as much credit for her landed, if flawed, 3As as she should. Then, her energy is taken and she makes mistakes on other jumps...

I’m sad. Somebody cheer me up!

Artistry wrote:

Ok, so I’ve read the thread, and the part about the Spiral (+3’s for Ashley), and then I read on Goldenskate that her spiral satisfied all the “bullet points”.

Can someone tell me how it satisfied all the bullet points?
I remember spirals at the Olympics (2010), before the rule change, and those I thought were spectacular at times - coverage, extension, edges. But I didn’t see that in Ashley’s spiral. I also agree with other posters about the robotic ugly arm movements. So unlike the magical Black Swan of Bauil years ago. Yes, things have changed... And not necessarily for the better.

So, who’ll break down Ashley’s spiral and its “bullet points” for me?

Thanks in advance?

In general, I’m a bit disheartened. I feel like what we’re witnessing is more of the same as before: no matter what Mao does (switch coaches, start from scratch), the bottom line is that she never gets as much credit for her landed, if flawed, 3As as she should. Then, her energy is taken and she makes mistakes on other jumps...

I’m sad. Somebody cheer me up!

Why are they being so technical like that? Sometimes when things become too technical, the beauty is lost. Didn't they ever try to add a bullet point that says,"Beautiful, unique, flexible spirals"? Mao has all that, especially the beautiful part. I'm just so confused!

Mao_Asada_sunrise wrote:

Artistry wrote:

Ok, so I’ve read the thread, and the part about the Spiral (+3’s for Ashley), and then I read on Goldenskate that her spiral satisfied all the “bullet points”.

Can someone tell me how it satisfied all the bullet points?
I remember spirals at the Olympics (2010), before the rule change, and those I thought were spectacular at times - coverage, extension, edges. But I didn’t see that in Ashley’s spiral. I also agree with other posters about the robotic ugly arm movements. So unlike the magical Black Swan of Bauil years ago. Yes, things have changed... And not necessarily for the better.

So, who’ll break down Ashley’s spiral and its “bullet points” for me?

Thanks in advance?

In general, I’m a bit disheartened. I feel like what we’re witnessing is more of the same as before: no matter what Mao does (switch coaches, start from scratch), the bottom line is that she never gets as much credit for her landed, if flawed, 3As as she should. Then, her energy is taken and she makes mistakes on other jumps...

I’m sad. Somebody cheer me up!

Why are they being so technical like that? Sometimes when things become too technical, the beauty is lost. Didn't they ever try to add a bullet point that says,"Beautiful, unique, flexible spirals"? Mao has all that, especially the beautiful part. I'm just so confused!

That makes two of us. I love Mao spiral, everything is there, the extension, beautiful lines, her arm position is great and goes very well with the music... I don't know what more do the judges need?
According to some posts at other forum, Mao's spiral is boring, because she doesn't move her arms like Ashley during spiral
Like Artistry said, I too thought the spiral is suppose to be about extension, speed, edges... not what you do or don't do with your arms during it, though if others would bother to look, they'd see how Mao's arms are moving along with the music...

Artistry I feel the same. I honestly thought that after Mao improved so much, that the judges will finally start to reward her, and at the beginning of the gp it looked like I was right, but at this competition... Though I'm hoping that the reason for those scores was, that competition was held in America, and America desperately needs a star.

Since no one has actually posted the GOE bullets yet, I guess I'll go ahead and do so!

SOV/Levels/GOE Guidelines

Quote :

1. good flow, energy and execution
2. good speed during sequence
3. good body line and full extension
4. minimal delay between spiral positions
5. good flexibility
6. creativity and originality
7. ability to attain positions and variations quickly and effortlessly
8. element matched to the musical structure

One thing I've noticed in the transition from level-assigned spirals to the choreo variant (same goes for the men and their choreo steps) is that the judges seem to be particularly fond of bullet #8 - the more obvious, the better. It is certainly blatant, yes, but I do think Ashley's choreo spiral answers the call for what the judges would like to see, and it's certainly not terrible in the speed/position/extension department. The +2.00 GOE is IMO definitely the recipient of a generous home boost. That said, whether one loves or hates the arm moves aesthetically, it is certainly one of the more creative approaches to the element and I for one appreciate that. For better or for worse, the choreo elements give a little more open interpretation to the GOEs even more than the level-based spirals/steps and the more sophisticated, complex spirals/steps may not necessary grab the most GOEs. A similar phenomenon often happens in the men where someone like Florent or Misha may equal or surpass the more refined choreo steps by their competitors often by virtue of their element being more crowd-pleasing or "enthusiastic."

Unfortunately the judges have never exactly warmed up as much to Mao's Liebestraume spiral unlike, say, the one she did for Bells. It's a beautiful, nuanced spiral, but it isn't exactly the most COP-friendly one out there if one thinks about it. Unlike most of the other ladies, it's a spiral that isn't preceded by several crossovers (Mao does hers after a spin and as the final element after all, so she doesn't have the time) which immediately gives it a disadvantage in speed/bullet #2. Not having a choreo spiral with two positions/variations probably isn't helping either in getting bullets #4 and #7 ticked-off under a picky judge. I would imagine #6 will be a bit difficult to satisfy as well.

In the end of the day, though, Mao still receives good GOE on her choreo spiral and unlike the leveled spirals, no longer as big of a point getter. The GOEs for that particular element weren't a major concern for me personally regarding the judging at this event compared to the sudden true lutzes everyone seemed to have, or the lenient UR calls (except for the 3A) all-around.

(We really need to do something about the CoP-for-Dummies subforum and at least shape it into a semi-database for BV/SOV and GOE guidelines. I probably should get started on actually compiling data there because I still numbercrunch and double-check point values for jumps time to time; it'll be much easier to summarize rule changes and compile it here, than continually opening up PDF files on the ISU website too )

P.S. Thanks for the continued 4CC stories and experiences, will_power and tianrushui!

well this is my 1st post here for one of my favorite skaters,Mao.
this is my take on this choreo. spiral scoring for Ashley and Mao.
imho, this judging panel were overly generous with GoEs for some skater while not so much for the other?

Ashley: met 1,2,6,8 (bullet points) but they(judges conveniently ignored when she goes from arabesque to a catch-foot.. I would scored +2 GoE (4 bullet points)
it was not smooth transition, in fact it is very jerky..under the old spiral seq. guide line this would have most likely down graded to a level 1.
do you all remember the 2008 Worlds? where Mo waxel her opening 3axel and made a huge recovery
to perform one of the most inspiring performances(I had tears in my eyes).
during Mao's spiral sequence,Biellmann spiral(most difficult) to her 2nd spiral position(arabesque?), she bubbled or had shaky edges during transfer( you must maintain 3 second hold before and after the change)
consequently, Mao's spiral was downgraded to a level 1.
I guess this rule does not apply with this new choreo spiral? apparently not.
second point, my big pet peeve, how about some free leg stretch and extension instead of this ugly knee bend catch-foot spiral we have seen over and over...sigh

on the other hand,Mao's spiral is lacking speed,however,it covers bullet point 3,4,5,6,7,8
I would scored +3 GoE (6 bullet points)
personally I thought Mao's 2010 Japan Nationals choreo spiral was fantastic.
great entry speed into a beautiful arabesque, strong edges into a fan spiral(watch her free leg extension, demonstrate tremendous strength and balance)

will_power wrote:

Oh and regarding the bear that Coach Sato was holding, lets give credit to the lovely(and lucky!) fans who gave it to her after her FS.

thanks for this picture...almost all of the people who have seen the teddy being given to Mao looked so delighted and happy. I can't wait to see Mao again...

will_power wrote:

I liked how morozombie mentioned "Christopher Caluza's LP". As a skater who kind of mimics Mao's Bells of Moscow program, I can recognize any move and step in that program. So when I first saw Christopher Caluza's step sequence in his LP, my mouth was literally wide open out of shock (in a good, surprised way). The first half of his step sequence was the same as Mao's first half of her step sequence. I might be wrong, but I'm kind of positive that Chris copied half of it.

Thank you for mentioning him! I'm happy that he represents my country and I think that his LP is definitely promising. And like us, I think he's a Mao supporter too!

Also fgr8sktrfn, welcome to the forums! Wow, your first post sure is informative. Definitely, Mao may have gotten more if she increased her speed during her spirals, but the music of Liebestraume does not call for that.

Great to have you here, fgr8sktrfn


Mao w/Zara Pasfield, Jaimee Nobbs of AUS & Kanako

Mao is beautiful. I wish I could do makeup and hair for her one day (my hobby) and make even more beautiful. Mao has romantic and feminine aura and for this picture I would put her hair down and give her soft curls and more nude colored lipgloss. I daydream...