Skate Canada 2012

ElleluvsL wrote:

omg Javi won!!!

Congrats to Javi!
At least some good came out of this competition, thank god!

I was able to watch mens FP live on tv just a while ago. I thought they scored Nobu fairly more or less. Don't have any complaints about that. And although he still was far from his best, Pattie did much better than SP. I think he even felt he was overscored in SP, so he really tried hard to prove what he has in FP. Still, I think they overscored him again; not as much as SP, but if Javi only managed to nail 1 quad out of 3(!) instead of 2 of them like he did, I think we might've ended up seeing Pattie on the top of the podium. Javi lost alot of stamina in the latter half of his FP, so it's just my imagination again, but if he wasn't one of Orser's boys, I think the judges might not have given him gold even with his 2 quads.

So sorry for Denis...but even with all those falls, I think he managed to skate quite powerfully till the end, and that's something he was having a problem with for the past few seasons so I still believe he's getting better. I think it was nerves which got to him this time just like Elene. They were in very good positions to make the podium after SP, and that hadn't happened to them in a long time, so I can imagine how much they were pressured. Hope they can both overcome such problems the next time.

Quote :

let's be honest, even NHK trophy tends to give high scores to japanese athletes so skate canada is no different than any other GPF events in terms of treating its own athletes.

I'm sorry but I cannot possibly agree to this. Yes, even NHK trophy may treat Japanese skaters a bit sweet, but never to this extent. Competitions held in Canada has been notorious for overscoring Canadian skaters for quite some time now, but with the exception of some extreme Yunabots, I do not recall people bashing NHK trophy in the same manner; go check past comments on FSU and GS. Of course you may see Dai, Miki or Mao frequently on the NHK podium, but in their cases it's the same in competitions held in other countries as well.

And again, as for Osmond...she's not just sloppy but I felt she wasn't blending with the music most of the time in her FP. I got the impression she was fast and energetic which is good, but it was as if the music was only BGM. As ddmm mentioned, I too would like to see how she'd be scored in competitions in other countries.

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

ElleluvsL wrote:

omg Javi won!!!

Congrats to Javi!
At least some good came out of this competition, thank god!

I was able to watch mens FP live on tv just a while ago. I thought they scored Nobu fairly more or less. Don't have any complaints about that. And although he still was far from his best, Pattie did much better than SP. I think he even felt he was overscored in SP, so he really tried hard to prove what he has in FP. Still, I think they overscored him again; not as much as SP, but if Javi only managed to nail 1 quad out of 3(!) instead of 2 of them like he did, I think we might've ended up seeing Pattie on the top of the podium. Javi lost alot of stamina in the latter half of his FP, so it's just my imagination again, but if he wasn't one of Orser's boys, I think the judges might not have given him gold even with his 2 quads.

So sorry for Denis...but even with all those falls, I think he managed to skate quite powerfully till the end, and that's something he was having a problem with for the past few seasons so I still believe he's getting better. I think it was nerves which got to him this time just like Elene. They were in very good positions to make the podium after SP, and that hadn't happened to them in a long time, so I can imagine how much they were pressured. Hope they can both overcome such problems the next time.

Quote :

let's be honest, even NHK trophy tends to give high scores to japanese athletes so skate canada is no different than any other GPF events in terms of treating its own athletes.

I'm sorry but I cannot possibly agree to this. Yes, even NHK trophy may treat Japanese skaters a bit sweet, but never to this extent. Competitions held in Canada has been notorious for overscoring Canadian skaters for quite some time now, but with the exception of some extreme Yunabots, I do not recall people bashing NHK trophy in the same manner; go check past comments on FSU and GS. Of course you may see Dai, Miki or Mao frequently on the NHK podium, but in their cases it's the same in competitions held in other countries as well.

And again, as for Osmond...she's not just sloppy but I felt she wasn't blending with the music most of the time in her FP. I got the impression she was fast and energetic which is good, but it was as if the music was only BGM. As ddmm mentioned, I too would like to see how she'd be scored in competitions in other countries.

it's fine, we can have different opinions.

Battle of the Carmens:
V/M FD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn_hphfT1rQ (gold)
C/L FD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBY4VCP19Ow (silver)
---
R/T FD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jypfZae0hyg (bronze)

Men's Top Three:

Javi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YezOffcGdfU
PChan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY9a1-XxVak
Nobu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jixrkEiN24

I didn't feel that katelyn's skating was as unrefined as some accused her of...it seems that she is decently fast and her movements are pleasing if not the most mature. And akiko's jumps were not as well-landed as they normally are so there was room to score her lower; she is more at mercy at the judges than she would be if she landed them with more flow and security.

I'm so sad about Ksusha. To her there is no way to be at Russian team now,at this state but she became such a beautiful skater, I adore her programs this year, Well we just have our Russian Alissa now I still believe in miracles though.

princessinpink wrote:

I didn't feel that katelyn's skating was as unrefined as some accused her of...it seems that she is decently fast and her movements are pleasing if not the most mature. And akiko's jumps were not as well-landed as they normally are so there was room to score her lower; she is more at mercy at the judges than she would be if she landed them with more flow and security.

My problem is that Katelyn got THE SAME PCS as Akiko, even beating her in the execution(!!) and interpretation. At the end of the day, Kanako, Liza and Akiko skated better programs. Kaetlyn landed only 3 clean triples. She lips and flutzes. Kanako was very undermarked and those "<" are very absurd and biased.(she should have won SC IMO).

I really never heard of a skater who both lips and flutzes how is that even possible? who the heck teached her jumps?

ballerinamao wrote:

I really never heard of a skater who both lips and flutzes how is that even possible? who the heck teached her jumps?

I don't know but here is the protocol:http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpcan2012/gpcan2012_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

ballerinamao wrote:

I really never heard of a skater who both lips and flutzes how is that even possible? who the heck teached her jumps?

I remember Akiko got both calls last season. Or it was two seasons ago, not sure.

swan wrote:

did javier, the spaniard, really just beat patrick, the canadian, in skate canada? mind is blown!

This was my reaction when I saw the results this morning, but then I just watched the mens LP on Eurosport and once again Patrick was overscored.

Here are some wonderful reactions from British comentators after seeing Patrick scores.
Simon: "I find this incomprehensible".
Nicky: "How can he be ahead of Oda with this performance is a mystery to me".

My rection: British eurosport guys, I couldn't agree more!!!

But I'm sooo happy for Javier!

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

I was able to watch mens FP live on tv just a while ago. I thought they scored Nobu fairly more or less. Don't have any complaints about that. And although he still was far from his best, Pattie did much better than SP. I think he even felt he was overscored in SP, so he really tried hard to prove what he has in FP. Still, I think they overscored him again; not as much as SP, but if Javi only managed to nail 1 quad out of 3(!) instead of 2 of them like he did, I think we might've ended up seeing Pattie on the top of the podium. Javi lost alot of stamina in the latter half of his FP, so it's just my imagination again, but if he wasn't one of Orser's boys, I think the judges might not have given him gold even with his 2 quads.

THIS. I mean WTH do the judges want? He was great even with 1 quad Javi would deserve to win, but without the second quad he'd loose. Am I seeing a different competition then the judges?

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

I'm sorry but I cannot possibly agree to this. Yes, even NHK trophy may treat Japanese skaters a bit sweet, but never to this extent. Competitions held in Canada has been notorious for overscoring Canadian skaters for quite some time now, but with the exception of some extreme Yunabots, I do not recall people bashing NHK trophy in the same manner; go check past comments on FSU and GS. Of course you may see Dai, Miki or Mao frequently on the NHK podium, but in their cases it's the same in competitions held in other countries as well.

Again I agree, no one and I really mean no other country who has a GP overscores their skaters so blatantly as SC does. Not even "Scam America". SC is in a league of her own, and this isn't a compliment.

polosatik wrote:

I'm so sad about Ksusha. To her there is no way to be at Russian team now,at this state but she became such a beautiful skater, I adore her programs this year, Well we just have our Russian Alissa now I still believe in miracles though.

Do you happen to know what's wrong with Ksenia? She had something taped on her left butt cheek, it looked painfull.
And I agree, if only she'd manage to land her jumps, she was great a few years ago, I think moving to Russia wasn't a good idea, at least not going to Rukavitsin, imo.

zarinaballerina wrote:

polosatik wrote:

I'm so sad about Ksusha. To her there is no way to be at Russian team now,at this state but she became such a beautiful skater, I adore her programs this year, Well we just have our Russian Alissa now I still believe in miracles though.

Do you happen to know what's wrong with Ksenia? She had something taped on her left butt cheek, it looked painfull.
And I agree, if only she'd manage to land her jumps, she was great a few years ago, I think moving to Russia wasn't a good idea, at least not going to Rukavitsin, imo.

I just read that she had problems with her injured leg so I guess it was the reason. Well about moving to Russia,maybe. But she was never consistent in LP, and her content was rather weak. Also we see that Michael with Petrenko doesn't skate well also So who knows. But I think this is the best programs she ever had and If she will be healthy then I hope she can deliver!

polosatik, I agree, I love both of her programs this year. I'm so glad she kept her short from last season. How I wish she hadn't skated to Marilyn disaster last season, but to something similiar to what she has this year.

Maybe she needs a new sport psychologist and a new coach. For some reason it isn't working for her.

zarinaballerina wrote:

polosatik, I agree, I love both of her programs this year. I'm so glad she kept her short from last season. How I wish she hadn't skated to Marilyn disaster last season, but to something similiar to what she has this year.

Maybe she needs a new sport psychologist and a new coach. For some reason it isn't working for her.

I noticed she's much more confident this year, let's see how she will handle leg injury. I think she overcame her mental problems, she needs a good jump coach.

zarinaballerina wrote:

swan wrote:

did javier, the spaniard, really just beat patrick, the canadian, in skate canada? mind is blown!

This was my reaction when I saw the results this morning, but then I just watched the mens LP on Eurosport and once again Patrick was overscored.

Here are some wonderful reactions from British comentators after seeing Patrick scores.
Simon: "I find this incomprehensible".
Nicky: "How can he be ahead of Oda with this performance is a mystery to me".

My rection: British eurosport guys, I couldn't agree more!!!

But I'm sooo happy for Javier!

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

I was able to watch mens FP live on tv just a while ago. I thought they scored Nobu fairly more or less. Don't have any complaints about that. And although he still was far from his best, Pattie did much better than SP. I think he even felt he was overscored in SP, so he really tried hard to prove what he has in FP. Still, I think they overscored him again; not as much as SP, but if Javi only managed to nail 1 quad out of 3(!) instead of 2 of them like he did, I think we might've ended up seeing Pattie on the top of the podium. Javi lost alot of stamina in the latter half of his FP, so it's just my imagination again, but if he wasn't one of Orser's boys, I think the judges might not have given him gold even with his 2 quads.

THIS. I mean WTH do the judges want? He was great even with 1 quad Javi would deserve to win, but without the second quad he'd loose. Am I seeing a different competition then the judges?

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

I'm sorry but I cannot possibly agree to this. Yes, even NHK trophy may treat Japanese skaters a bit sweet, but never to this extent. Competitions held in Canada has been notorious for overscoring Canadian skaters for quite some time now, but with the exception of some extreme Yunabots, I do not recall people bashing NHK trophy in the same manner; go check past comments on FSU and GS. Of course you may see Dai, Miki or Mao frequently on the NHK podium, but in their cases it's the same in competitions held in other countries as well.

Again I agree, no one and I really mean no other country who has a GP overscores their skaters so blatantly as SC does. Not even "Scam America". SC is in a league of her own, and this isn't a compliment.

Agree too ! I don't recall any competitions in Japan where the Japanese skaters where ridiculously overscored. In all ISU competitions in Canada, on the other hand, it's so clear they desperately want their own skaters to be on the podium. I wonder how the skaters feel about this.
I always agree with the eurosports commentators. The guys commenting may not know much about FS as other country's commentators but they see things like the audience do, they always speak for us.
And yes, Patchan was again overscored!

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

Agree too ! I don't recall any competitions in Japan where the Japanese skaters where ridiculously overscored. In all ISU competitions in Canada, on the other hand, it's so clear they desperately want their own skaters to be on the podium. I wonder how the skaters feel about this.
I always agree with the eurosports commentators. The guys commenting may not know much about FS as other country's commentators but they see things like the audience do, they always speak for us.
And yes, Patchan was again overscored!

Well, they're probably not enthusiastic about it (at least I wouldn't be), but there's nothing they can do.

About British commentators, Nicky was an ice dancer if I'm not mistaken, I don't know if Simon was a skater, but to me they do sound like they know what they're talking about, especially Nicky in ice dance. They don't seem to know much about what goes on with skaters off ice, but imo, they do sound knowledgeble. What I like the most about them is that they are OBJECTIVE, you don't have to listen to some of the stupidity others (from my personal experience the german commentators) put you through.

And I absolutely agree, Patrick was overscored in both, SP and LP.

ddmm wrote:

Agree too ! I don't recall any competitions in Japan where the Japanese skaters where ridiculously overscored. In all ISU competitions in Canada, on the other hand, it's so clear they desperately want their own skaters to be on the podium. I wonder how the skaters feel about this.
I always agree with the eurosports commentators. The guys commenting may not know much about FS as other country's commentators but they see things like the audience do, they always speak for us.
And yes, Patchan was again overscored!

I think it's very important that commentators see the performances close to the same way the audience sees them. Figure skating is not a sport like soccer or baseball in which who wins and loses according to scores the players achieve themselves. Nor is it a sport like track and field in which making records mean the most. Such kinds of sport do not need an audience. A teams win will still be a victory without anybody watching it, and a top athlete can still break a record without an audience all the same. But figure skating is different. It's a sport which I think needs an audience no matter what. I kind of think it as an 'appreciation sport'; the skaters go out into the rink not just to win, but to move people's hearts. Artistry and beauty cannot exist if nobody is there to appreciate it. And thus there are PCS not only TES.

Now the judges, I believe are supposed to be the ones to speak out for the audience when they score PCS. However, when they score a skater in PCS which does not satisfy the audience, we need commentators and professional sport critics to speak out on behalf of us instead. I'm very sorry to have to admit that most commentators in Jpn aren't doing that, but usually only make safe comments rarely criticizing obvious over-scorings. Plus very few sport critics comment or write honestly about figure skating here thesedays, because extreme (stupid; sorry!) fans tend to bash them if they were to say something true but strict about Japanese skaters. Figure skating has become such a popular sport in Jpn, but because of that some things are going the wrong way...honestly speaking, I'm getting sick of seeing the same kinds of programs on the sport where announcers and guest celebrities who know nothing about the sport just keep on saying 'ganbare (good luck sort of phrase in Japanese)' to the skaters. And of course they hardly ever question the scorings either.

Just cheering for all the skaters and not questioning the judges is thought to be a virtue in Japanese morality, but I would really like it more if commentators speak out more honestly like in other countrie's broadcasts.

So... I just watched Osmond's FS. First of all - I have played the ENTIRE Carmen suite in orchestra, so it really bugged me that the "Entr'acte" portion was played by a violinist when it is a flute solo. Also, that portion is supposed to be a lovely, slow, reflective portion of the suite, and she COMPLETELY took it out of what it was supposed to be. That should be a dock in PCS points right there. To me, it seemed like her choreography was slightly mistimed to her music throughout the program. I must say that I like her speed and her jumps, but there were just way too many wonky landings for a win. I would have given her about... 111-112 for that. It was a good performance, yes, but not spectacular. And to be fair, I think Akiko was also slightly overscored, but not by much - maybe a point or two. 120 was a bit much for that performance.

Anyway, here is to hoping that Mao, Akiko, and Kanako make it to the Grand Prix Final. The latter two have a good start, and as long as Mao keeps her head together, she should be okay. And I also would love Taka, Dai, Nobunari, and Yuzuru to all land in the Grand Prix Final as well. Japanese Nationals might be painful to watch... only three spots for those four extremely talented men. What a shame that Japan seems to keep having this problem.

Alokya, the only thing I liked about Kaetlyn was her energy and speed. I'm not a fan of her Carmen, she can perform I'll give her that, but imo, she's not a Carmen. I'd be surprised to be honest if she'd actually pulled the character off, since she's only 16.

I agree about the Japanese men. I understand why there are max 3 spots per country available, but it really sucks when a country has 4 such great skaters. Even if all 4 of them would somehow manage to get enough points for GPF one of them would be left out.

I'm so not looking forward for mens nationals. I wonder who's going to be left off the worlds team. But there is a consolation prize (4CC), though everyone would prefer worlds. At least with ladies I don't have to worry. I hope I'm not jinxing anyone.

Men at Japan Nationals will be heart-breaking! I love all four of them equally and this is sad that one has to be left out of the team. Also, I feel bad for Mura and Machida who are also very good skaters but it seems like they will never have the chance to be on a world team !

I'm so happy with Kaetlyn performances this week-end. This is a relief for Canada. Not only because of her win, but most of all because of her potential. She seems to enjoy competing, she doesn't seem scared at all. She seems sweet and she's always smiling (compared to Lacoste who usually only smile at a certain portion of her program where her choreographer told her to do so) .She's attacking every jump she enters (many canadians used to "pop" jumps) and she is very commited to her program. I think it's rare for a 16 years old...usually someone so young would only skate around and to the technically required elements. Her programs are full of transition and she makes it look easy! Because of all that, I think Kaetlyn got the PCS she deserved. And also, everyone knows that when you have a good short program, your PCS in the free skate will be higher. I don't say it is fair, but it is how it is. However, I love Akiko's free skate and I would have put her at least 60 for PCS (but since she was far in the standing in the SP, her PCS where a little lower than this).

I think that it was an unfair competition for Akiko, but yes Kaetlyn is really good, she is only 16 but she has not the body of a little girl, then I suppose we dont need to worry for growth spurt. I just watched her exhibition and the girl is super charismatic

http://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/p-sp-tp0-20121029-1039418.html

In this article Akiko said she didn't feel tiered after skating 4 minutes because she was too busy with thinking. She accidentally added single loop after 3F at the middle of her FS. Then she started to use her brain to full extent. She was planning to do 3F-2 but she could no longer use it. While she was expressing birds to the music, she was doing a lot of calculations. She did a sole triple jump to avoid zayak violation. When she realized there will a few extra seconds before she finishes her FS, she added some movements off the cuff pretending she's not upset.

I hope this affected and thus judges gave her low PCS. People often say that what we see/feel on TV or video clips are not exactly what judges see/feel in person on the rink side. If that's so, I think Akiko potentially has a room to get more PCS in future competitions. If SP affect PCS in FS, I strongly hope she will improve her spins. I love her both programs and she skates very fast and expresses agility suited to kill bill music in SP. But, unfortunately, when she spins, especially the first one and the last one, the music makes her spin very slow. Actually, she's not fast spinner and I don't expect she spins like Yukari or Alissa. Increasing spin speed even just a little bit will help her get more points in PCS too, I think.

I also hope Akiko will teach how to calculate while skating a program to Tono.

linglang wrote:

http://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/p-sp-tp0-20121029-1039418.html

In this article Akiko said she didn't feel tiered after skating 4 minutes because she was too busy with thinking. She accidentally added single loop after 3F at the middle of her FS. Then she started to use her brain to full extent. She was planning to do 3F-2 but she could no longer use it. While she was expressing birds to the music, she was doing a lot of calculations. She did a sole triple jump to avoid zayak violation. When she realized there will a few extra seconds before she finishes her FS, she added some movements off the cuff pretending she's not upset.

I hope this affected and thus judges gave her low PCS. People often say that what we see/feel on TV or video clips are not exactly what judges see/feel in person on the rink side. If that's so, I think Akiko potentially has a room to get more PCS in future competitions. If SP affect PCS in FS, I strongly hope she will improve her spins. I love her both programs and she skates very fast and expresses agility suited to kill bill music in SP. But, unfortunately, when she spins, especially the first one and the last one, the music makes her spin very slow. Actually, she's not fast spinner and I don't expect she spins like Yukari or Alissa. Increasing spin speed even just a little bit will help her get more points in PCS too, I think.

I also hope Akiko will teach how to calculate while skating a program to Tono.

LOL linglang!
When I watched Tono skating, all I was thinking was 'please don't zayak and don't crush to the wall!'

FS is such a busy sport indeed. You not only have to perform and jump but you need to do some maths!
After Akiko's FP, we see her coach Mr. Nagakubo saying 'well thought'. First I was wondering what he was talking about but now that Linglang tells me she was actually doing some calculation, it makes me smile !

I wish Akiko all the best!

linglang wrote:

I also hope Akiko will teach how to calculate while skating a program to Tono.

LOL, I had the same thought when I heard what happened to her in the LP.

ddmm wrote:

When I watched Tono skating, all I was thinking was 'please don't zayak and don't crush to the wall!'

I think most of us were thinking the same. It's a shame though, because if Nobu would learn how to calculate in the midddle of the program, he would have a few world medals around his neck, imo.
I still remember how crushed he looked at K&C (I think it was 09 worlds, but I'm not sure) when he learned that his gorgeous 3-3-3 in the second half of his LP won't count because he Zayaked himself with it. Though listening to German commentators screaming "No, what the heck is he doing" was funny.

zarinaballerina wrote:

linglang wrote:

I also hope Akiko will teach how to calculate while skating a program to Tono.

LOL, I had the same thought when I heard what happened to her in the LP.

ddmm wrote:

When I watched Tono skating, all I was thinking was 'please don't zayak and don't crush to the wall!'

I think most of us were thinking the same. It's a shame though, because if Nobu would learn how to calculate in the midddle of the program, he would have a few world medals around his neck, imo.
I still remember how crushed he looked at K&C (I think it was 09 worlds, but I'm not sure) when he learned that his gorgeous 3-3-3 in the second half of his LP won't count because he Zayaked himself with it. Though listening to German commentators screaming "No, what the heck is he doing" was funny.

I think Tono needs to have program without complicated calculation. honestly, even Haruka executed back up plan (in SA) better than him LOL
Since she can't land 2A3T then she did 2A then add 2T after 3S. when her first 3loop was not good enough for combination jumps, she added 2T2T after the other 3Loop.
Tono needs something like that and he should not have two 3T in his program especially he has 4T in the program and sometimes will be downgraded becoming 3T.
We also saw what happened to Adelina in SA, she accidentally add SEQ after her triple but she didn't realize that...then she did another no-count gorgeous 3+2+2...

Akko was amazing that she can think over everything during the 4 mins.