Worlds 2013 Part 2

polosatik wrote:

Mao speed improved from Olympic season, since she reworked her entrances to her jumps, at practice she's doing them with more speed,though in competition she slow down a bit, so it's an old habit, which is slowly improving ,you can read inskate posts on it. One specialist told me that he found a huge improvement on Mao's salchow, good speed and power now. Mao was never a speedy skater with huge jumps. But she really improved in this area, please take this in account. Mao finished at high level this season. After two unsuccessful seasons, she finally on her way to her top condition. Let's support our girl together and let's leave all our doubts in this season.
I'm making two Mao montages now, I hope we will be able to do our birthday project for Mao and I can include them there , I want to show my support to Mao as much as I can. I feel Mao fans always in doubts and it reflects in Mao skating, let's believe in her and give her our confidence!

Thanks for the info.

mini34ans wrote:

My impression on this Worlds:

So Sad to see Mao especially in the Short Program. I didn't watch it live, but it was rebroadcast in the next morning. She seemed to be so nervous and unstable. Probably she did too much care about Yuna or Media.

She was better in the free, but still looked insecure. Nevertheless, she landed other jumps except for 3-3 and two-footed triple axel. She was not that bad overalll, but surely under her expectation.

There exists big difference between watching it live in a big, flat TV screen and on Youtube. Big screen on live really captures and amplifies how much tension and stress athletes feel.

I think Yuna did well, especially in her free. She could skate well after seeing other competitors make serious mistakes. The free portrayed her softer sides which I had never paid attention to her. I always thought Her choreo had much agressive or dramatic exaggeration. This time was different, though.Her short didn't move me much choreographically, full of similar body movements like in 2011 programs. I couldn't get what she wants to express in the short.

I think she's portraying a vampire victim Considering the bloody part on her costume.

It is said the photo was taken during Javi's gala performance (practice?)

polosatik wrote:

mini34ans wrote:

My impression on this Worlds:

I think she's portraying a vampire victim Considering the bloody part on her costume.

Well, I never thought it that way, but maybe you have a point.I don't understand the relation between her music choice and costume. The costume itself is beautiful, but somewhat distant from music or theme of the SP.

By the way, I am trying to read many posts as much as possilbe on this website. I've found out probably you may be one of those who can explain technically. Have you ever skated before? What I want to know is:

1) How much it will take for Mao to come back to the top form? I thought she finally came back in 4CC but in this worlds, she didn't seem to.Judges in 4cc gave UR MARK ON 3f-3l How much underroation did it take place? How about putting 3-3 in the short depite underroation like she used to do?Maybe 3l-3t despite edge call?

2) Some people in Yuna's thread say Yuna's spins are worse than Mao. In her Olympics and past programs, her spin seems to be faster than Mao. In what way, they say her spins are more terrible?

these questions may be answered by other people as well. Maybe this topic may not be proper here. Someone may tell me.

mini34ans wrote:

polosatik wrote:

mini34ans wrote:

My impression on this Worlds:

I think she's portraying a vampire victim Considering the bloody part on her costume.

Well, I never thought it that way, but maybe you have a point.I don't understand the relation between her music choice and costume. The costume itself is beautiful, but somewhat distant from music or theme of the SP.

By the way, I am trying to read many posts as much as possilbe on this website. I've found out probably you may be one of those who can explain technically. Have you ever skated before? What I want to know is:

1) How much it will take for Mao to come back to the top form? I thought she finally came back in 4CC but in this worlds, she didn't seem to.Judges in 4cc gave UR MARK ON 3f-3l How much underroation did it take place? How about putting 3-3 in the short depite underroation like she used to do?Maybe 3l-3t despite edge call?

2) Some people in Yuna's thread say Yuna's spins are worse than Mao. In her Olympics and past programs, her spin seems to be faster than Mao. In what way, they say her spins are more terrible?

these questions may be answered by other people as well. Maybe this topic may not be proper here. Someone may tell me.

inskate is our technical lady here No,I'm not a skater, but a long time fan.
I can try to answer your questions and I think others will answer too so we will have a better picture.
1.Since Mao is reworking her jumps, also changed her layout just at 4cc, she wasn't able to skate clean, though her sp was clean there. I can't say Mao wasn't at her top shape at Worlds. In my view she was in better sjape then at 4CC. But, her mistake, a popped loop cost her really badly, because in SP you have to do a solo triple jump. If not it get a -3 GOE. Her FS at Worlds was much better, because even she got two UR and -2 GOE on her 3a, it still was ratified, so both of her 3a were ratified. About putting a 3-3 in her SP, I doubt it will happen. Mao has too difficult layout already. 3flip-3loop is the combination which very rare get full rotation. 2 previous seasons were really bad, while this season I call a comeback season. Next season in my view, is going to be in her top condition.
She already not pressured by 3a, no matter if it's good or bad she's fighting back and perform her program. Mao has never done 3lutz-3toe consistently, so it is either 3flip-3loop or 3flip-3toe. But the one thing about second combination is she hasn't done it since 2008,which is a long time ago. Even with 3f-3l UR with other jumps clean her TES is going to be around 77. Look at inskate post about Mao's scores, very informative!
I'm more positive then ever. A lot of skaters doing their layouts f for ages, while Mao change it like for every competition and this season she still managed to do pretty consistent at her layout. Her FS layout is the most difficult ever. She has 8 triples,which has never been done before. To be honest I expected worse, but Mao delivered. She's doing her run-throughs clean at practice, so the next step is going to be consistency in actual competition.
2. Yuna had many back injuries in the past and she has pointed many times that now doing a layback or biellman hurts a lot for her. She said it in her last interview after Worlds. For other spins, she has good speed, good edges but her positions are worse then Mao's. Before changing layout this seaosn, Mao got all levels 4 for her spins, which is really good. At Worlds Mao got her spins faster. Her speed is still not her best quality in her spins. So my guess:
Get consistent with current layout
Getting level 4 for all non jump elements
Improving speed going into the jumps and spins

These three things she's doing already, next season she will do even better.

silenceisgolden wrote:

It is said the photo was taken during Javi's gala performance (practice?)

I looked at Mao during Javi's gala practice and she sure smiled a lot and thought it was funny (as did every other skaters )!

Maia Shibutani tweeted this

Quote :

By the way, I am trying to read many posts as much as possilbe on this website. I've found out probably you may be one of those who can explain technically. Have you ever skated before? What I want to know is:

1) How much it will take for Mao to come back to the top form? I thought she finally came back in 4CC but in this worlds, she didn't seem to.Judges in 4cc gave UR MARK ON 3f-3l How much underroation did it take place? How about putting 3-3 in the short depite underroation like she used to do?Maybe 3l-3t despite edge call?

2) Some people in Yuna's thread say Yuna's spins are worse than Mao. In her Olympics and past programs, her spin seems to be faster than Mao. In what way, they say her spins are more terrible?

these questions may be answered by other people as well. Maybe this topic may not be proper here. Someone may tell me.

Polosatik already gave a lengthy post, so I'll just share a bit of my own thoughts. This post is still a bit related to Mao and Yuna's performance at worlds, so I think it's ok. Moderators, please correct me if I'm wrong.

1) Mao is a human and an athlete. People tend to notice the latter part and expect a LOT from her. (I, for one, am guilty of this.) She was at her top shape, or at least at the top where she can be. But she is human and is quite quite allowed to make a mistake, and it had the consequences which we now see. Her form deteriorated since 2008, which is quite likely because of body changes (body becoming heavier), and because she remained coach-less for a while before going to Tarasova. Her time with Tarasova was part-time due to Tat's own personal problems (a family member became sick, I think), so she trained on her own. And when you train on your own, it is very hard to notice little errors, and you tend to make bad habits. BUT I believe this is an area where she has slowly improved since 2011 when she went to Mr. Sato. Coach Sato is a good basic skating coach, so today in 2013 we see the results of Mao's improvement. She is not as draggy as she was in 2010. Her skating style has now adjusted to her heavier body, and she still remains like a 'souffle' on ice to me.

Polosatik already mentioned the change in layout. ==> Changing the blocking of your jumps is hard because you have to prepare mentally and adjust your skating speed and approach (timing). It's like when a teacher announces the coverage of an exam a month before the test, then changing the exam content a few days before.

The 3F-3Lo had an UR call because it was just before the 1/4 mark which is signals under rotation. And it's strange how she gets the 3F ratified when it's in combination while when used as a solo jump it receives UR call. Additionally, Mao is not keen in doing 3T combinations (but I love her 2A-3T!!! Beautiful!) because she is a loop jumper, meaning she has more affinity with the loop than the toe loop. Kudos to her for being herself and not joining the bandwagon of toe loop jumpers because the toe loop combos are easier to do!


2) To judge a spin, one has to look at the edge (outside or inside? The change of edge is a requirement in one of the spins in the LP and SP), speed (acceleration during a spin can increase the level of a spin), position (How neat and how extended is it? How long is it held? How many positions were done?), centering (Does the skater stay on one place or does the skater travel? e.g. see how centered Caroline Zhang's layback is!), revolution (How many? The number of revolutions determine the level of a spin, e.g. a lay-back spin has to have 6 lay-back revolutions, 3 layback to the side, and 3 Biellmann revolutions to be level 4).

Even if Mao and Yuna are not the best spinners, but they have good quality spins which garner level 4. Mao and Yuna both hold their edges and positions well.

Mao has better flexibility when it comes to Biellmann and Y-spin, but she tends to stoop in her sit spin. Mao's spins were slower in 2010, but she improved her speed in spins since she trained with Coach Sato and Takahiko Kozuka, so her speed depends on how well she enters the spin. She also has better extension and transitions now! She doesn't take too much time while changing from one position to another, and her Y-spin is sublime......

Yuna, after not competing as actively as Mao for the past 2 seasons, is still adjusting to her new body in spins, so her spins seem slow now. She's doing a good job of it, actually, because she can still do her positions neatly enough (and it's harder to do a position, esp a lay-over, when you're slow). I'm not a fan of Yuna's layback despite her good back arch because her leg turn-out bothers me (see the turn out of K. Osmond and A. Czisny). I do cut her some slack because she did have a very painful spine injury (a herniation) back in 2006-2007 where she had to have her back taped to be able to compete. So I think she's just doing what she can now and maximizing it without aggravating her injuries.

--If you read this long post, thanks --

Those Mao photos are LOVELY! Thank you for sharing them!

@Polosatik @Abdiel: Thanks for your explanations, I really appreciate them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhEwmx5W7U0

SP Run through!

Thank You helen91,

I cant really tell but it looks like Mao's 3A was over rotated but, everything else was beautiful. Despite the mistakes she made on the 3A in competition, she was able to get full rotation and no <.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmJJXpVEmC8

Someone kindly uploaded another practice video from the gala.
LOL at Mao skating while Kanako laughs at her @ 3:15

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21174372

Someone made an interesting video comparing the number of cross-overs done in the FS by the top 4 ladies.  Their final counts were Yuna = 32, Carolina = 18, Kanako = 16 and Mao only 7!!  Good girl!

helen91 wrote:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21174372

Someone made an interesting video comparing the number of cross-overs done in the FS by the top 4 ladies.  Their final counts were Yuna = 32, Carolina = 18, Kanako = 16 and Mao only 7!!  Good girl!

Yayyy for transitions! 

l-spiralmao wrote:

helen91 wrote:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21174372

Someone made an interesting video comparing the number of cross-overs done in the FS by the top 4 ladies.  Their final counts were Yuna = 32, Carolina = 18, Kanako = 16 and Mao only 7!!  Good girl!

Yayyy for transitions! 

I take it the less cross-overs a skater does, the better? I'm sorry, I'm not very good at technical stuff other then jumps. And if this is the case, PCS score for Mao makes even LESS sense. 2 points lower than Caro's and 5 points lower than Yuna's?!!! honestly, I think that the judges were stoned or something, this is just wrong.

Mao's practices 3A at Worlds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3yu0v1_cOA

zarinaballerina wrote:

l-spiralmao wrote:

helen91 wrote:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21174372

Someone made an interesting video comparing the number of cross-overs done in the FS by the top 4 ladies.  Their final counts were Yuna = 32, Carolina = 18, Kanako = 16 and Mao only 7!!  Good girl!

Yayyy for transitions! 

I take it the less cross-overs a skater does, the better? I'm sorry, I'm not very good at technical stuff other then jumps. And if this is the case, PCS score for Mao makes even LESS sense. 2 points lower than Caro's and 5 points lower than Yuna's?!!! honestly, I think that the judges were stoned or something, this is just wrong.

Thanks for the link.  I've been wondering too how the judges factor in the number of corssovers when they give PCS scores.  I've been also wondering how the judges recognize and reward the speed.  I mean the speed generated by crossovers and the speed generated by deep edges are different thing and thus they should be recognized and rewarded differently, I think.

Regarding this video we have to be careful that it focuses only on "backward crossovers".  I understand Mao does more forward crossovers than backward crossovers.  Yet, even both of them are counted, the number of crossovers she does in a program is relatively less than those by other skaters.

linglang wrote:

zarinaballerina wrote:

l-spiralmao wrote:

helen91 wrote:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21174372

Someone made an interesting video comparing the number of cross-overs done in the FS by the top 4 ladies.  Their final counts were Yuna = 32, Carolina = 18, Kanako = 16 and Mao only 7!!  Good girl!

Yayyy for transitions! 

I take it the less cross-overs a skater does, the better? I'm sorry, I'm not very good at technical stuff other then jumps. And if this is the case, PCS score for Mao makes even LESS sense. 2 points lower than Caro's and 5 points lower than Yuna's?!!! honestly, I think that the judges were stoned or something, this is just wrong.

Thanks for the link.  I've been wondering too how the judges factor in the number of corssovers when they give PCS scores.  I've been also wondering how the judges recognize and reward the speed.  I mean the speed generated by crossovers and the speed generated by deep edges are different thing and thus they should be recognized and rewarded differently, I think.

Regarding this video we have to be careful that it focuses only on "backward crossovers".  I understand Mao does more forward crossovers than backward crossovers.  Yet, even both of them are counted, the number of crossovers she does in a program is relatively less than those by other skaters.

Happy 1000 posts to you btw!

Congratulations linglang

Thank you helen91 and I-spiralmao !!

helen91 wrote:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21174372

Someone made an interesting video comparing the number of cross-overs done in the FS by the top 4 ladies.  Their final counts were Yuna = 32, Carolina = 18, Kanako = 16 and Mao only 7!!  Good girl!

yet another thing that makes Kim's presentation score a joke (especially when it comes to ss and tr) I love that this was made, after kim received that crazy score at WC, another record breaking pcs score. one should really write to ISU and ask them about this, I would love to hear what they would have to say about this

let`s talk wrote:

Mao's practices 3A at Worlds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3yu0v1_cOA

oh my brother made that video !!

bibi wrote:

let`s talk wrote:

Mao's practices 3A at Worlds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3yu0v1_cOA

oh my brother made that video !!

you mean your brother is Laurent Guay? the skater from Canada? Coolness!

ilovethai wrote:

bibi wrote:

let`s talk wrote:

Mao's practices 3A at Worlds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3yu0v1_cOA

oh my brother made that video !!

you mean your brother is Laurent Guay? the skater from Canada? Coolness!

Yes he is ! haha why do you know him?